'Charlotte' High Level Cistern / Victorian Toliet Leaking

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by verynewtothis, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Please help! Is there a way I can get around this? I thought it would be a straight chrome pipe run starting from the Compression Equal 90° Elbow at the top of the cistern, but I now need to connect to the bend at the bottom of the run shown in the photo. I can't really use the bottom of the chrome pipe now as it looks discolored.

    If turned off the stopcock to stop the water flow then undid the isolating valve shown in this photo then added a piece of copper tube joined to a compression elbow pointing to the right at 90° then another compression 90°elbow to start the chrome pipe going up, would that work? I have drawn an example below.

    Btw, someone also said to me yesterday that I should be using some kind of tape where the joins are around the pipe to get a tight seal, is that true or don't I need them when tightening up the nuts? Will I need some more nuts and olives?

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    Photo 12-06-2019, 10 33 59.jpg
    Photo 12-06-2019, 10 33 59.jpg IMG_0004.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  2. DIY0001

    DIY0001 Active Member

    That should work fine, and is a bit more sensibly laid out than the original. The whole point of the isolation valve is easy access for servicing/replacement of the cistern parts, so burying it out of sight in the boxing defeats the purpose. Also, how will a future occupier / plumber know there is a service valve at all if its out of view? Surprised you managed to find it to begin with. Moving it to where you suggest is a much better option.

    A couple of tips. You can probably leave the nut and olive from the existing service valve on the pipe to fit the first compression elbow. Easier than trying to cut the pipe, clean it and fit an elbow from scratch. Also, make sure you get chrome plated copper pipe. I did see one cowboy try to fit chrome plated steel pipe into plumbing once. :rolleyes: I think it was meant for curtain rail or something, but it was really hard and unsurprisingly he couldn't get the compression fittings to seal! o_O It would probably have rusted through in a couple of months if he had been successful anyway.

    All of the fittings should come with the required nuts and olives, but its always handy to have some spare olives as they can't be moved once tightened.

    There really isn't any need for PTFE tape on standard compression fittings. The seal is between the soft metal surfaces of the pipe, olive and fitting. If they leak a little when you turn the supply back on then turn it off and tighten them up a bit. Get some blue kitchen towel and wipe each joint once the water is on. The blue stuff gets darker when wet and easily shows the slightest leak.
     
  3. DIY0001

    DIY0001 Active Member

    One other point. When you turn off the stopcock you will still have water in the pipes. So when you undo the original isolation valve this will run out. Depending on the rest of the plumbing, it can be quite a lot, but you'll at least have the pipe full to the cistern empty out. If you can drain some off by opening other taps in the system that helps, but have a container and some towels ready to soak it up. Be prepared and don't panic. ;)
     
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  4. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Will report back... thanks for everyone's input - Very Appreciated.
     
  5. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Ok, I have managed to do it! Thank you for all of your help on this, went pretty well apart from one moment where I managed to start a massive leak! I do have some more issues with the flush pipe now and a leak under the high level cistern, with new photos below, if anyone can help with this also I would be greatly appreciative.

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    New Issues -
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    Leak under the cistern
    [​IMG] Leaking from flush pipe 1
    [​IMG] Leaking from flush pipe 2
     
  6. terrymac

    terrymac Well-Known Member

    The chrome flush pipe would appear to be going into the pan inlet at an adverse angle ,and the flush cone (rubber seal ) is partly out. Try to re align the pipe and fit a new flush cone as well.
    Below the cistern ,is the leak above the white plastic nut ? If not ,undo the nut and check the condition and alignment of the rubber seal. Post a pic if poss.
     
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  7. DIY0001

    DIY0001 Active Member

    As Terry mentioned, the flush pipe into the WC doesn't look square and the seals should be checked. These should just be a push fit and you might need to put some lubricant on the seal to get it to push in without distorting. There's a guy on YouTube recommends washing up liquid for this, but I prefer to use silicon grease.

    Difficult to say where the cistern leak is from the photos, but turn off the service valve, flush the cistern and then undo the nut and check the seals are clean, on clean surfaces and fitted in the right sequence. Be careful when refitting the nut that you don't dislodge the seal or over-tighten the nut. A quarter turn past hand tight should be enough.

    Have these joints always leaked? I didn't think you were going to change any of the flush piping, just the cistern fill valve and pipes. If they have always been like that then you probably need to replace the seals completely. They are readily available.

    Only other comment is that you should put a couple of clips on that length of feed pipe to secure it. Might spoil the appearance a bit, so your choice, but it looks a bit vulnerable left unsupported like that.
     
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  8. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Thanks for the reply DIY0001, sorry for the delay in getting back to this thread. I have now used fairy liquid to push the fitting back in which seems better. Have put clips on feed pipe also, thank you for the advice. I still have some issues...

    The previous owner had put clear silicon around the plastic pipe fitting on the cistern, it's difficult actually getting it off and I'm afraid I might do damage. I'm not sure if these joined have always leaked, i presume so, the previous owner did alot of bodge jobs all over the house and now I find i'm spending most of my time trying to get them right. Thats why i have to do it myself otherwise i'll make a loss on the house in the long run.
     
  9. DIY0001

    DIY0001 Active Member

    Have you tried this stuff to get rid of old silicon? Cut as much off with a Stanley knife as you can, being careful not to damage anything. Then brush on the remover, leave for 15-20 minutes and scrape it all off with a plastic blade. Might need a second coat to get it all out, then wash down and it should be fresh as new. I have used it a couple of times and it does what it says. Once you are back to the original surfaces the seals should work properly and will look better than old sealant anyway. If the seals have been damaged by the old silicon, then they may need to be replaced. In fact, depending on the condition of the threads on the plastic outlet it may be easier just to replace the flush valve completely.

    Hope it helps.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
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  10. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Ok, just an update. The plastic pipe by the cistern is now not leaking. However, the waste still is, so i'm still trying to find a fix. I presume it is the seal but i'm not sure, it looks worn. I have attached photos below. I'm just wondering what seal would I need or do I need more than just a seal. Screwfix item links would be appreciated. I'm not sure if it is a special seal being a victorian toilet. If I do have to disconnect the whole toilet how do I stop the water going everywhere also?

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  11. DIY0001

    DIY0001 Active Member

    What is the white stuff around the grey waste pipe? Looks like silicone, which might be stopping the seal from working, although it does look like it has been a problem in the past and hence siliconed up. I'd remove that, clean up the pipe and try again, maybe needs a new rubber seal though. Measure and see if this or this fit. Alternatively, replace the entire elbow with this or this into the grey pipe further back.

    It should be OK to disconnect the whole toilet since the flush valve is in the cistern, higher up. However, best turn off the service valve you fitted near the cistern base and flush the toilet to prevent floods before moving the toilet just to be sure its all empty.
     
  12. Joe the Plumber

    Joe the Plumber Active Member

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  13. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Morning all. I think I have nearly completed the job, thanks to all of your help and advice. There now only seems to be one minor leak, or a drop every so often from the flush pipe going into the toliet as in the photo. (This photo was an earlier one where the fitting wasn't pushed in enough) I have taken out the plastic type fitting and cleaned it and pushed it in as far as I can get it with the help of a bit of fairy but it still seems a drop here, drop there. Could anyone link me up to what would best replace that please?

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  14. DIY0001

    DIY0001 Active Member

    If it is just a drop now and then, are you sure it is actually a leak and not just condensation forming on the chrome pipe when it is flushed with cold water from the cistern. Its a common problem at this time of year when the air is hot and humid.

    If its all pushed home and square now then the only thing I can think of that might cause a leak is that the seal itself might be damaged. You might need to use some sealing compound to fix it, but I'd try replacing the seal first as they are cheap as chips.
    Either this or this should fit.
     
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  15. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    I think it does slightly leak, the flushcone has to be in a perfect position. Sometimes it looks like it is fitted right in but still gets a drop out of it, I will try a new one. Thanks for the advice, getting there slowly!
     
  16. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Morning all, only me again!! The new flushcone solved the issue straight away, the old flushcone felt plastic while the new flushcone was rubber. No leaks there now and I am so close to have fixed the whole lot courtesy of your help.

    I am still keep getting leaks on the pan connector, no where else. I probably should have said I went with the floplast pan connector and now there is a leak. Maybe because it was cheaper but maybe there is not enough fall.

    https://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-sp101-straight-connector-white/17227

    I turned the iso valve on late last night and in the middle of the night I found there was a leak. It must be where the toilet is going into the wc pan connector But also where the pan connector goes into the grey waste pipe. There isn’t much fall and I think the pan connector is holding water in the rubber seal type area.

    Any ideas how I can solve this please?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  17. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

  18. verynewtothis

    verynewtothis Member

    Any ideas anyone? The mrs is on the warpath!
     
  19. NoOhmToGoTo

    NoOhmToGoTo Active Member

    Yes, use a McAlpine pan connector as advised previously.
    I'm assuming that the there is a short length of pipe inside the elbow that the pan connector pushes into?
     
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  20. KIAB

    KIAB Well-Known Member

    McAlpine pan connector is the only make to use,never had one ever leak.
     
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