Chimney Breast Removal (Ground Floor)

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Doggo, Jan 23, 2019.

?

Structural?

  1. Yes

    66.7%
  2. No (Unlikely)

    33.3%
  1. Doggo

    Doggo New Member

    We've recently purchased a victorian terrace which has had the first floor part of the chimney breast removed.

    The portion in the loft has been supported by a gallows bracket, that even though may not have had the correct regs obtained at the time (decades ago now by the previous owners), it's since been inspected by a structural engineer accompanied with an insurance indemnity should the worse happen.

    My question is on the remaining ground floor portion.

    I've got a good relationship with the party wall neighbour, so I dont envisage sign off on that being an issue (but would like any advice if there is a simple way approach this to speed up the process and reduce any unnecessary paperwork costs)

    In regards to the ground floor chimney breast; as it no longer bears the weight of the chimney above, is it a simple case of knocking it out?

    I had a builder quote, who said it would be max three days work for two lads and allow a further day for the plasterer to make good the one wall/ceiling. He inspected and didn't believe it was structural, but advised he'd want me to consult a structural engineer first to be sure. If sign off was good and no supporting beam was needed then his quote was £4,500.

    To me this seemed high. Maybe due to my inexperience with how much building work costs, I prepared myself for something more around the £1,500 mark.

    Any advice would be warmly welcomed and pictures can be supplied, which would probably be more clear than my explanation.
     
  2. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    7 man days to remove a downstairs chimney breast / fire place is completely over the top.
    My two sons (16 and 19 at the time) did one in a day ... and they didn't just chuck it all in a skip ... they stacked the bricks up in piles for reuse on the extension.
    If the first floor breast has already been removed, then there's almost zero probability that any support structure will be needed. You'll only know when you get started, so I wouldn't get in a structural engineer, as he/she would just be guessing too.
     
    DIY womble likes this.
  3. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    What a lot of people don't think of is whether their chimney is structural in the sense of it acting as a buttress, nothing to do with load bearing possibilities. As you've had a SE in to have a look I'm sure alls well and good, but it's still something to consider rather than just blindly start smashing. The builders timescale is fairly accurate by the sounds, but his figure does seem rather large.
     
    DIY womble likes this.
  4. stevie22

    stevie22 Screwfix Select

    I agree with Roger: 6 mandays to take the breast out is taking the p***.

    You might need a carpenter to sort the first floor out depending on how that's been left when the upstairs section was removed: probably supported by ground floor
     
  5. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    Something to check/watch out for is that none of the joists are using the chimney as an end support - they shouldn't be, but you never know!

    If it's victorian, it should come down easily - most likely lime mortar which comes apart without much trouble. Personally, I'd just drop it carefully myself from the top, and then pay a plasterer to come in and make good. I personally wouldn't be too concerned about stability/buttress - it should be a 9" wall, not just a single skin, (unless perhaps both you and neighbour have also taken out the mid-house dividing wall and not left any nibs, when I might want a second opinion)
     
  6. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    It's not just taking the breast out though is it? Move all furniture, dust sheets down, tape up doorways, where's the skip? Can you park outside, is there skip access outside, or double yellows and you have to walk bags of rubble for metres and metres to get to the skip/van. Are there electrics or pipes attached to the side of the breast that require moving or relocating? Take breast down, possibly insert support, patch or support joists back in, patch the ceiling in, clean up all the rubbish, seal wall with PVA, dot and dab or float and set onto wall to patch in, skim plaster, wait to dry, patch skirting and maybe coving, paint, clean thoroughly as lime mortar dust gets everywhere as I'm sure everyone is aware, and woohoo, jobs complete in a day! Or maybe not, more like three to four days.
     
    PhilSo and stuart44 like this.
  7. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Old houses can hide surprises,sometimes nasty ones when it comes to demolition.

    Removing a old chimney breast can become a job from hell,all depends how it's tied in to another wall,& what it possibly be supporting,first floor, might need acrow, until you start taking it down you never know,might turn out to be a straight forward job. .
    Throughly sheet off the room were your working from rest of house, as the dust will get everywhere, I use to wet down the area, to keep dust down as I demolished.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  8. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    Absolutely - planning is everything! If it's already out above, it should come down fairly easily, but it's never going to be 1 day's work. Everybody is making the same point - you may need to alter the joists, alter services etc, so have to be prepared, but it could just as easily be nice and straightforward with the joists already supported and no services to worry about. It'll always be a dirty dusty s*****y job though!!
     
    KIAB likes this.
  9. Doggo

    Doggo New Member

    Thanks for all the advice! I'll do some more investigation work and may be back with some pics/more questions
     
  10. Doggo

    Doggo New Member

    Took a bit longer to getting around to starting this, as usual, other things got in the way.

    As no floor joist were directly resting on the breast and the motar was in such a poor state (no way that was providing any structural support) I decided to start taking out slowly.

    This is where I'm at:

    Couple more days to get the rest out, bolster off any tied in bricks and add some additional joist supports for the patched first floor gap, then can get a plasterer in.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
  11. gas monkey

    gas monkey Well-Known Member

    take the bit on the left down asap
     
  12. Doggo

    Doggo New Member

    With the exception of pleasing my wife, who agrees with you, what's the immediate urgency?
     
  13. gas monkey

    gas monkey Well-Known Member

    can/t see anything holding it up
     
  14. Doggo

    Doggo New Member

    So the urgency is more referring to supporting the ceiling joist (particularly the left hand side) rather the removal of the remaining breast? If so, I completly agree and is a priority.
     
  15. gas monkey

    gas monkey Well-Known Member

    section of bricks appear to not be supported on the right
     

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