Compulsory vaccinations for tradesmen

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by Joe the Plumber, Jul 14, 2021.

  1. Joe the Plumber

    Joe the Plumber Screwfix Select

    Earlier today, I made my first post on here for six months. The last time I posted anything, it was in support of a video showing that the pandemic wasn't as serious as the mainstream media would have us believe.

    The video and all the comments disappeared overnight.

    This morning's post quoted from a decision made in Parliament last night to force all care home workers to be vaccinated or lose their jobs. That too has been deleted.

    However I suggest you have a hunt for this yourselves, because the government also included compulsory vaccinations for anyone who goes into another person's home to work, such as tradesmen and hairdressers. And that means us.

    I am very concerned about this and its wider implications. If you have any common sense, you should be too.

    Anyhow, this was a public service announcement from J t P.

    I'll perhaps see you again at Christmas, unless this topic disappears, in which case that's me gone forever.
     
  2. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    Wouldnt bother me, what wider implications cause you to be very concerned.
     
    Adamfya likes this.
  3. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    Having just read the draft statutory instrument concerning compulsory vaccination and care homes the scope of that document does not extend to private dwellings. There are also certain exemptions for emergencies that I won’t bore you with. It does cover anyone entering care homes unless excluded for a specific reasons ( emergency or visiting someone who is dying etc)

    If there are draft regulations concerning private dwellings it would be good to see them. Remember it is Parliament that makes the law here not the mis informed media
     
  4. Muzungu

    Muzungu Screwfix Select

    I read your post this morning. I am assuming the analogy you made between the sign over the gates of Auschwitz and the fact that tradesmen will need to be vaccinated before working in care homes was the reason it was deleted, not because of the issue itself. I was not particularly surprised that it was deleted.

    Didn't see the earlier post so can't comment.
     
  5. kitfit1

    kitfit1 Screwfix Select

    Apart from what @Muzungu posted in the previous post, it seems obvious to me you havn't read the rules regarding false information. Because the government have not included any reference to tradesmen working in a persons home and why would they, we have all been working as normal in peoples homes throughout the epidemic.
    I fully understand and agree with the premise that anyone working in a care home should be vaccinated. Care homes suffered horrific mortality rates at the start of the pandemic, for it to happen again would be tantamount to murder.
     
  6. Tilt

    Tilt Active Member

    Even if it was true, how do you think they are going to police that????
    Anyone with any common sense would realise the idea is Bonkers......IMO
     
  7. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Science is a big side interest of mine, always has been - there is absolutely nothing to fear from the Covid vaccine, the technology is not new at all, its well over 200 years old, it's just been refined a lot in this case.

    The refining, which enables the vaccine to just target the RNA of the spikes on the virus shell means it is fairly resistant to mutation and fully proof of ADE, which can be an issue with some vaccines.

    When you have the vaccine, your body attacks it with antibodies, destroying it quickly, but leaving a T cell memory, when you then get the real virus the immune system attacks the spikes before they get a chance to properly hook into our cell walls, and hen proceeds to form a response against the rest of the virus.

    It's clever stuff, and nothing to be feared, and can save your bacon - a chap I knew died over xmas of Covid at just 36 years old, with no pre existing conditions - for most it comes to nothing, but why take the chance.

    Of course people worry about the blood clot / myocarditis issues, but all medications have a small risk, the first person Flemming gave penicillin to died of it, many are allergic, but we still use it without concern.

    The Covid vaccine has now been administered to more people than any other prescription drug, and measure for measure has had a lot less issues than most.

    I have no faith in statisticians like Ferguson and so called public health experts like Whitty & Vallence, but I have a lot of faith in the media shy men and women who work away in the labs creating these products.

    Remember, without modern medicine it woudn't just be Covid, we would continually battle tens of nasty infections all the time that would kill and mame, science has tamed them all, and will do the same to covid - I agree it's over hyped by the media though.
     
  8. Joe the Plumber

    Joe the Plumber Screwfix Select

    Folks, I must apologise. I got this wrong. The paragraph that concerned me read as follows:

    "The regulations – which passed by 319 votes to 246 – will also apply to healthcare workers, tradesmen, hairdressers and others who need to enter a home to do other work unless they have a medical exemption."

    That would have been much clearer if it had read: "...who need to enter a CARE home to do other work...".

    The newspaper article I read misinterpreted that line as meaning any private home, and as a consequence, so did I.

    Thanks to those who pointed this out and once again, my apologies.
     
  9. Muzungu

    Muzungu Screwfix Select

    Well that's a rarity, and a refreshing change! Someone on the internet apologising rather than doubling down. Did I feel a trembling of the earth's axis?

    Kudos.
     
  10. stevie22

    stevie22 Screwfix Select

    Shock, horrer: a newspaper gets something wrong.

    Fair play to you Joe.
     
  11. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    Wouldn’t be the first time a journalist has got it wrong. It’s still relevant to all of us visiting care homes. Even to visit relatives there!
     
  12. BiancoTheGiraffe

    BiancoTheGiraffe Screwfix Select

    I have no idea where you get that idea, it is absolute nonsense!

    As for the bit about a 36 year old dying of Covid, yes, these things happen, but they are extremely rare in people of that age, even amongst people with serious health conditions.

    It's got to be about balancing risk, once the side effects of the vaccine are fully known, and I'm at a more substantial risk of Covid, then I'll consider it. That won't be for a while...
     
  13. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Bianco, the basic principle of this vaccine is no different to Jenners Smallpox vaccine of 1798 (over 200 years ago) or others, like Jonas Salks flu and polio vaccines. In fact the chinese were using variolation, a similar concept to vaccination 200 years before Jenner.
    The difference is where as Jenner used a live virus and Salk used killed whole virus, in this case we are able to copy just a part of the virus, the technology in the AZ vaccine is a good 20 years + old and the very clever mRNA technology has been in development for years.
    Of course neither Edward Jenner or Jonas Salk understood or could see RNA, but the RNA of the virus' in their early vaccines was what was doing the job in training the immune system.
    I agree death is uncommon in the healthy at 36, even under 50 - but I'd personally rather have just cold like symtoms than be bed ridden for a couple of weeks!
     
    Muzungu likes this.
  14. Muzungu

    Muzungu Screwfix Select

    Fascinating letter from Lady Worsley from the Ottoman Empire in the early 18th century:

    "I am going to tell you a thing, that will make you wish yourself here. The small-pox, so fatal, and so general amongst us, is here entirely harmless. . . . There is a set of old women, who make it their business to perform the operation, every autumn, in the month of September, when the great heat is abated. People send to one another to know if any of their family has a mind to have the small-pox; they make parties for this purpose, and when they are met (commonly fifteen or sixteen together) the old woman comes with a nut-shell full of the matter of the best sort of small-pox, and asks what vein you please to have opened. She immediately rips open that you offer her, with a large needle (which gives you no more pain than a common scratch) and puts into the vein as much matter as can lie upon the head of her needle, and after that, binds up the little wound with a hollow bit of shell."

    As @Tony Goddard said, obviously the workings of the immune system and the genetics behind modern vaccines were then unknown and the process did have dangers, but the principles were much the same. To dismiss the comment as "absolute nonsense" because of this does appear, to me anyway, a bit strong.
     
  15. BiancoTheGiraffe

    BiancoTheGiraffe Screwfix Select

    mRNA technology is brand new stuff, it is nothing like traditional vaccines!

    What is driving me absolutely insane right now is the refusal by some to accept that people are skeptical for a good reason.

    Trying to "convince"/coherce people by telling them that they're wrong about the technology is just ridiculous.

    https://www.modernatx.com/modernas-mrna-technology

    From the horses mouth:

    "Using mRNA as a medicine is a fundamentally different approach than treating disease with other drug classes"
     
  16. BiancoTheGiraffe

    BiancoTheGiraffe Screwfix Select

    To put it into simple terms:

    I know that jet engines have been around for donkeys years, I know we've been flying commercial jet aircraft for decades.

    That doesn't mean I'm going to hop on to a brand new one that hasn't been fully tested and is only licensed for emergency use!
     
  17. Muzungu

    Muzungu Screwfix Select

    I don't think anyone is disputing that creating a vaccine using mRNA is a relatively recent development. The way the vaccine so created works, though, is pretty much the same; that is in priming (so to speak) the immune system to combat the relevant virus it has been created for.

    I have no issues at all with the current vaccines and see no "good reason" to be skeptical, but of course you have the right to refuse it, and I would support that even though I think you are wrong.
     
  18. BiancoTheGiraffe

    BiancoTheGiraffe Screwfix Select

    But we don't have any idea about long term side effects!

    That is why I'm going to wait and see, and am absolutely spitting feathers about BoJo the Clowns announcement that I'm basically going to be refused access to normal life from September.
     
    Baxi Boy and CGN like this.
  19. Muzungu

    Muzungu Screwfix Select

    I have read of no scientific reason why there should be any long term side effects given the way the vaccine so produced works, so I would argue that saying we have "no idea" is not quite right. Perhaps you are aware of a technical mechanism by which possible long term side effects will be produced by this vaccine, I am not.

    It is of course impossible to prove a negative, in just about any argument about anything, so those who use the argument about long term side effects can never be proved definitively wrong.
     
  20. BiancoTheGiraffe

    BiancoTheGiraffe Screwfix Select

    For god sake wake up!

    People ARE dying because of the vaccine side effects!

    A 26 year old lad at a place I work dropped dead two days after having it, massive blood clotting!

    Just because it's not on the BBC doesn't mean it's not happening!
     
    Baxi Boy likes this.

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