Confirmation for reasons to scribe internal corners on skirting

heeelllooo dunc hows it going

for the sake off this argument wood only moves across the grain

so on a mitre both surfaces open up against each other so if the movement is 1mm per piece thats a 2mm gap[complicated by the 45% angle ]

but with a scribe only 1mm gap opens up because the other half is end grain
it will of course shrink by the same amount but sideways in relation to the other bit

clear as mud eeehhh

big all

 

If you have tried fitting some it will give you a clear reason for scribing. If you havent try one either way on a unsquare wall.

 

for the sake off this argument wood only moves across the grain

so on a mitre both surfaces open up against each other so if the movement is 1mm per piece thats a 2mm gap[complicated by the 45% angle ]

but with a scribe only 1mm gap opens up because the other half is end grain
it will of course shrink by the same amount but sideways in relation to the other bit

yeah that explanation accounts for some of the properties of timber. But the joint has no influence as the scribed joint still shows the shrinkage.

So a better description would be to say that scribing reduces the signs of shrinkage. However it does not actually prevent shrinkage.

 

ok dunk

the physical gap is roughly half the size also because a mitre should as near as possible set with the uncut part off the scribe facing you so double visual and actual reduction

where as a mitre is pretty much as visible from where ever

big all

 

ok dunk lets try again

the physical gap is roughly half the size also
because a scribe should as near as possible set with
the uncut part off the scribe facing you so you half the visual size of the gap

where as a mitre is pretty much as visible from where
ever

clear as mud eeehhh

big all

 

ok dunk lets try again for the second time

the physical gap is roughly half the size also
because a scribe should as near as possible set with
the uncut part off the scribe facing you so you further reduce the visual gap by another half
so from the main part off the room the visual gap is approaching 25% of a mitre

where as a mitre is pretty much as visible from where
ever you stand

 

OK, OK, OK...................... IVE HAD ENOUGH.

External corners of skirting. Forget the DIY methods like biscuited mitre joints.

The joint you should use is a hidden dovetail mitre joint. It is then impossible for the joint to move or open up.

Internal joints. Tongue the return skirting into the back peice which should be grooved. ONLY the moulding should be coped. This way any movement is completly hidden, the timber will never move far enough for the joint to open up.

You think this is going a bit overboard? I havent finished yet, scribing the skirting to the floor. Its a DIY bodgers technique.

Run a rebate into the floorboards and tongue the skirting into it. You will never ever see a gap between the skirting and floor board again.

Finally i will nail the very nastiest cowboy skirting installation technique going. Hardwood timber plugs to cover screw fixings.

The ONLY proper way to fix skirting is with secret fixings, insert your screws into the wall first. Install keyholes into the back of the skirting then fit your skirting onto the screws. No more visible fixings

You think some or all of these ideas are a joke. They arnt

Back in the mid 1800's all these techniques were used on the very best of high quality work.

 

I have come across mitred internals in georgian properties, which I have had to fit to. So I can understand that the argument has raged for over 200 years.

Anyway all this focus on one end of the board when there are always two ends to a board. Why would one end of the board have significantly different performance characteristics to the other end. The external mitre holds itself together with no more than positioning, pins and glue. It doesn't need a special joint or the grace of god to perform.

 

The reason has NOTHING TO DO WITH SHRINKAGE,both joints will shrink,it is to do with practical reasons.
Imagine you are a 1900 carpenter,obviously you only have a handsaw ,and a length of the moulded skirting you are fitting probably costs more than you earn in a day.
You measure the first wall(without a nice metal tape),who in their right mind would try and cut two difficult mitres,if it is slightly short you have messed up bigtime.
If you cut a straight piece the next scribe will cover a small gap,the scribe will cover an out of square wall and the scribe can be adjusted to cover an out of plumb wall.
I know this arguement goes on and on but it is a matter of tradition.I was shown how to scribe a skirting by my old man who was taught by a long dead tradesman who probably learnt from his father.I for one will be passing on that tradition

 

To Shabba Planks, I know its a bit late to answer,but your answer is more correct than your tutors (you are right).

 

hi andy
never mitre internal corners there are so many reasons why not! ill go through them if you like.

 

wow
i thought it was just me who argues about this subject! the only way to do internal skirting is to scribe!, apart from loads of other reasons its 1 cut, fits first time every time regardless of how bad the wall is , if you miter them you will find yourself visiting the saw several times,(and try and miter 9inch taurus, ogee by the way) and when you have done that you will always see 2 joints, wether painted of not! and yes shrinkage across the grain on mitred joints has a massive impact. anyone here who did an aprenticeship and still mitres must be mad, or *.

Message was edited by: Screwfix Moderator

 

Scribing suits some aspects of mitre jointing.
For example how effective is it for an angled bay window? The scribe will need an angled cut, so why not cut it as a mitre?
Or how effective when using square edged skirting,? Somewhat pointless?

Also in many Victorian buildings the skirtings were laid out and mitred internal and external. then the plasterers did their work. So any repairs to such will require mitreing to match.

Plus it no good saying its a skill one doesn't need or should never try.

 

Well, jeznott, where do I start ?

Firstly, in bold in your comments, the first statement about being the only way, is BULL. It shows complete lack of thought, and believing there is only one way to do ANYTHING shows you don't have a brain of your own.

Secondly, for someone with such knowledge and training, you might at least have known that it's TORUS, not TAURUS. So that's BULL too(see what I did there?)

Thirdly, if YOU can't make a good mitre, don't try and push scribing on to those that CAN make a good mitre.

You would really rather scribe this:

Pfffft!

Mr. Handyandy - Really

 

blimey i thought this one had been solved some time ago

agree to disagree i think

 

Well just to throw my pennorth in to the fray. I think scribing is better for internal corners than a mitre will ever be.  As has been pointed out, corners are very rarely an exact 90 degrees. Secondly, with wooden skirting, there will always be some movement of the timber and mitres, unfortunately do open up more than scribed joints. If only someone can invent some sort of timber treatment that makes the timber completely unaffected by moisture (they'd surely become a millionare)
I'm not entirely sure that dunc is correct saying that Victorian joiners mitred internal corners though. When I modernised the last house I lived in (a Victorian terraced property), the original skirtings were taken off and internal corners had been scribed. I do know that these skirtings were original to the building by the way they had been installed (before any plastering was done and by the use of cut nails and timber plugs). One length of skirting even had the name of the joiner  and year the skirting had been installed, written in pencil on the back of it !!
I suppose with modern mdf mouldings etc it might be perfectly acceptable to mitre internal corners, but for real wood , I'd always scribe them.

 

just but them and leave the rest to the decorator

 

hi handy andy
thanx to replying to my comments, normaly i get a bit peeved with diy'ers who try and tell me my job but i feel i cant with you , as its all in good humour and i have never seen your work, but just a couple of points i would like to raise if i may, firstly it is spelt taurus, just google it, look at a builder mag, ask sombody else ( i googled it using the brain i dont have for myself, just to be sure!) secondly, people mitre internal corners as they are doing the job how they think it should be done, not how it is actually done ( no training, you see) and thirdly yes i would be able to scribe that bit of moulding you put up there, perfectly, as i know how to and if you mitred it it would look gash , although if you painted it and used some painters mate you may get away with it! , tell you what post a photo of some skirting you have done so we can all see how good the internals are, and no cheating! and yes i will too. lets make it interesting and get some big stuff too, why not 7-9 inch unpainted of course!!
look forward to your reply
have a good evening, jez

 

hi was dunc before
scribing is still very effective for bay windows but the back cut has to be much more than usual, and i have pefected a method of scribing square edged skirting too well kind of a mix of the 2 but with the advantages of a scribe and to be honest i would be amazed if the victorians mitred internal corners although they also had cowboy carpenters!, also you could have been pulling stuff off that was fitted way after them!
cheerz, jez