confused about single socket types

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Bun, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. Bun

    Bun New Member

    my dad recently had to repair 2 single wall sockets in my bedroom, the corner one had 2 lots of live and neutral wires in it connected to a 2 pole socket.

    the next one he fixed only had one lot of wires (live, neutral, earth). This was also fitted to a 2 pole socket but my dad replaced it with a 1 pole socket since it was only 3 wires like we expected, but the corner socket with 6 wires we left alone as we didn't want to risk using a 1 pole socket on all those wires we didn't know the difference between using 1 pole or 2 pole and why there was that many wires in that socket and not the other.

    can someone please explain to me before I use these sockets I don't want to risk being electrocuted.
     
  2. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    D312FC22-8E71-4ACC-A79B-973370069350.jpeg Sockets (single or double) are often connected as a ring circuit. That means there will be two cables at each socket. it is permissible to have an additional socket as a spur from the ring. The socket where the spur is connected will have an additional cable (6 conductors in all). The socket that is a spur will only have one cable.


    Having said all that the best way to reduce your risk of electrocution is to employ the services of a good electrician.
     
    KIAB likes this.
  3. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    In the UK we use fuses in the plug and a ring final system to supply the sockets developed near end of world war 2 to assist with rebuilding Briton as it would use less copper, some country's did also adopt the same system, and it has produced some unusual requirements.
    1) In UK polarity is very important, our plugs are not reversible.
    2) There are two cables to each socket in the ring system, or three where there is also a spur.
    3) The sockets can still work, even when there is a fault.
    The latter means testing is rather important, or you can get an overload of the cables as they are only rated at around 22 amp but protected at 30 or 32 amp, it relies on both cables being connected so they share the load, although not equal share.

    We also have radials, spurs, and fused spurs which may have only one cable. Although two 13A sockets could supply 26A it is permitted to have a single single or double socket on an unfused spur, but not two single sockets, i.e. one device only.

    There seems to be a names problem with your post, I suspect when you say 1 pole and 2 pole you mean 1 gang and 2 gang, or single or double socket, as long as it is a single unit a single socket can be replaced with a double socket.

    Single pole or double pole normally refers to the switch type on a switched socket, there is no need to have a switch at all so either single pole or twin pole can be used, a double pole can make fault finding easier.
     
  4. Bun

    Bun New Member

    ok I think I am starting to understand it a little.

    is it a ring final where there is 2 live, 2 neutral and earths connected to a single wall socket for a single plug instead of just 1 live, 1 neutral and 1 earth?

    and as for 1 pole and 2 pole thats just what we saw on the back of the socket units and wondered what difference they have, both have the same amps and wattage.

    I'm just being a little paranoid about why one had more wires than the other and would like to learn lol

    I didn't know a single plug socket could have more than 3 wires connected.
     
  5. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    What do you actually mean anyway by ‘repair socket’ .... just outta interest :)

    It’s irrelevant if it’s a single or double socket as to how many wires you may find connected

    Either single or double socket may have 1 cable (3 cores), 2 cables (6 cores) or 3 cables (9 cores) connected

    Just depends on wiring system used and if socket is supplying a spur or is a spur itself .... and other stuff :)

    Do a little research on-line for your own information perhaps and never assume anything and don’t work outside of your knowledge - leccie can and does kill

    Single pole socket switches live core only / double pole socket switches live and nuetral
     
  6. Bun

    Bun New Member

    we took the cover off because the on/off switches were broken to replace with new ones :p

    thanks for the easy to understand explanation :)
     
  7. spirits are real 2016

    spirits are real 2016 Screwfix Select

    you could of changed the single to double using converter sockets or if you had enough slack proper back box and socket.
     
  8. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    well.................
    It MIGHT be a socket on a ring final, or it MIGHT be a socket as part of a radial circuit (ie no return path back to the supply, or it MIGHT be a socket that is a spur from a ring final that has a second (not permitted) spur attached to it.

    How can you find out? By fully understanding what the various options might be and spending some time with a voltage tester.
     
    MGW likes this.
  9. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    As Bazza says two cables into a socket can mean:-
    Part of a ring final.
    Part of a radial but not the last socket.
    Part of a fused spur which is just like a radial.
    Part of a non fused spur where some one has not followed the rules.
    To identify is not easy but if the two line wires so as being connected with an ohm meter, and same for neutral and earth then likely part of a ring, however removing a socket and replacing it can dislodge a wire, so we need to test, as some one who has the meters for me easy, before I remove I test and note loop impedance then I test resistance when removed then after refitting test loop impedance and it is very unlikely I will miss a fault, as if a wire was to become disconnected the loop impedance would raise.

    However without the expensive test equipment the only way to be sure the ring has not been opened is to test at the consumer unit, and I would not be happy telling any non electrician to open up a consumer unit.

    There are plug in units starting at around £40 which do a basic loop test, however it is rather basic, and you can't really be sure all is OK with go/no go led lamps.

    Even electricians get it wrong, I was working in some offices where clearly some one had extended the socket circuit to fit extra sockets, the original circuit was a 4 mm radial on a 32A fuse, but the extra was done with 2.5 mm cable clearly the electrician doing the work thought it was a ring when it was in fact a radial. He should have checked continuity and had he done that he would have realised his error.

    My own house has had two faults, as I lost the main lump of the ring final, I did not realise there was a fault until the second one happened, as a temporary fix the MCB has been reduced to 20A until I can lift floor boards.
     
  10. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    The reference to 'pole' is related to the switches on the socket. A single pole socket is switched in the live only. A double pole or two pole socket is switched in the live and neutral. It makes no difference to the performance of the socket whatsoever, it just makes the switch in to an isolator because it cuts power to the socket outlets completely with the switch off. In reality it is a daft and pointless addition to a socket to have it double pole. You would just pull the plug out if you wanted to cut power to whatever was plugged in. There are lots of unnecessary designs in the industry. There even misinformed electricians that believe wrongly that a socket without a switch is no longer allowed.

    The terminology for a single socket is 'gang', one gang socket. Double or twin 'gang' socket. Pole and gang are not interchangeable.
     

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