Consultants on strike

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by bright_Spark, Jul 20, 2023.

  1. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    I am not buying all of this with consultants saying they want a 34% pay increase for the good of their patients. They are not thinking much to the welfare of their patients whilst walking out and standing on a picket line.
    I think it is degrading and disgraceful of the profession, nobody would say they do not deserve the pay but 120k per year, do they really need a pay increase?
     
    teabreak likes this.
  2. quasar9

    quasar9 Screwfix Select

    Guess like anything else, a shortage pushes the prices up. Years of underinvestment by successive governments of all colours have led to a shortage of medical staff in the UK. It takes 7 years to qualify and maybe another 10 plus to get to a consultant level. Instead governments have relied on importing the staff without which NHS would probably have completely failed by now.

    now we have several issues.

    1. There is a political swing against getting medical staff from abroad and brexit did not help at all.
    2. Foreign doctors even if invited are reluctant due to conditions attached to their visa (families, length of stay etc etc) but moreover the medical practice in their own countries has improved to such an extent that they no longer feel that coming to UK will improve their skills.
    3. Junior doctors trained here are now emigrating to Australia, NZ and USA.

    the government has belatedly acknowledged this but to get sufficient home grown talent will take at least 25 years, the life of 5 parliament terms. Why ? there are not enough medical colleges or training staff to start with. Then there is the demise of teaching science as separate chemistry, physics and biology (now many schools are teaching a mixed bag of assorted science subjects). All this takes time and a dedicated focus on nation building and not party politics.

    As they say, make hay while the sun shines
     
    Abbadon2001 and Bob Midgley like this.
  3. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Seems to be born out of greed to me, everyone is struggling in this recession so why should the consultants and junior drs be asking for such an increase. I would sooner see paramedics , ambulance drivers and nurses get a pay rise first. Are they trying to put the NHS under more stress than it can take in order to just do private work. I just don't get it, it is like holding the government to Ransome and by everyone wanting higher wages will only burden the economy at this stage and keep inflation rising.
     
  4. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    This is all due to the lack of properly qualified staff in the NHS after many years of neglect and underfunding. Market forces dictate that when a commodity is in short supply, the price increases, a workforce is a commodity and the same rules apply. The only way to reduce the level of the pay demand is to flood the 'market' with a well trained workforce, something we have failed to do since joining the EU. Never mind, our current leaders have told us they are pumping money into training more workers for the NHS, just hope you aliments can wait until the 7 years training period has ended. :)
     
  5. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Thing is though Bob, why wait until now with all of the pressures of no money left in the pot and now causing more pressures of bigger waiting lists to add to the burden. I agree the NHS has been neglected by lack of investment but now isn't the time to be squeezing more out of what is not available. The whole country is going on strike demanding more money.
     
  6. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    When I look at our national finances and how they are run, I see a government that has allowed a basic staple of modern life and industry (gas and electricity), to rise steeply without any real intervention, other than to reward the perpetrators with a huge bag of taxpayers money. The argument that blames it all on the war and global issues is faulted as the suppliers are making huge profits. I suggest that those making this decision have something to gain from the action, ie, they have shares in certain companies, no more need be said. The Government found the money to give Charlie a pay rise of around 40%, his actions have little effect on most of us, but the actions of the NHS and it's workforce do. With this in mind, who then should get the money?
     
  7. Cris 11

    Cris 11 Active Member

    How to turn a first world country into a third world country, just vote Tory and it only takes twelve years to destroy the NHS, economy and the infrastructure completely.

    Tired of the excuses of Covid, Ukraine and the energy crisis that's what they get paid to manage. Tired of hearing that we cant afford to pay the NHS staff properly perhaps if MP’s stopped fiddling taxes we could afford a decent NHS, ones been caught, how many others haven't.
    The British public being taken for mugs as usual, I have always voted Tory never again although the alternatives aren't that good either.

    As I said in a previous post.
    They have always been determined to destroy the NHS all be it by the back door, they are sneaky and untrustworthy, top loading the NHS with managerial jobs with no bearing on health so it will collapse under its own weight.

    Then we will have the Tory dream, private health care the pigs will gather around the trough of shareholding in the insurance companies as they already have in the utility companies.
    If you are unfortunate enough to have an accident the ambulance drivers will ask for your credit card or insurance first.

    If you don’t have any insurance you will go to a second rate facility and be billed for the ambulance later if you don't or cant pay the bailiffs will be around.

    The land of the free, if you have nothing your free to go without.
    Careful what I say if I want to keep my bank account.
     
    Sparkielev, Jord86 and Andyb666 like this.
  8. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Politicians in the UK are no different to any other country a simple fact is that they will feather their own nests first. I mean our prime minister is ridiculously wealthy which really means that he cannot relate to the public and money concerns, the whole Tory party is full of toffee nose twits who only think of their own careers. They even throw each other under the bus in order to save themselves. Party gate, fiddling expenses and corruption is far reaching but then what alternative do we have? None of them deserve our votes which is the only time they care about us in order to get into a better position for themselves. Look at our house of Lords, not a normal person amongst them. The whole political system needs a complete shake up but that isn't going to happen.
     
    b4xtr and Sparkielev like this.
  9. arrow

    arrow Screwfix Select

    It was tony bliar who started the decline of the NHS. He signed up to pfi initiatives that are costing unneeded billions and some do not finish for about another 50 years. He also sub contracted all the cleaning, maintenance etc costing a lot more than in house. Couple that with opening the doors and flooding the country with mass migration, it is no wonder it is on its knees.
     
    b4xtr, longboat and bright_Spark like this.
  10. Cris 11

    Cris 11 Active Member

    Pfi was started by John Major (Tory) in the early 90s but I agree it was expanded by Blair and he's new labour party, Tories in disguise.

    I doubt I will vote any more there is no point as already said they are all the same, so I no longer have the right to complain.

    And screwfix have threatened to close my account they said I don't buy enough tools but I think it might be because of my political views. (joke).
     
  11. HarryL1234

    HarryL1234 Screwfix Select

    For a long time now there have been various caps on the number of doctors who are trained in the UK (see https://www.bmj.com/content/337/bmj.a748, for instance). The aim of this was to ensure full employment in the medical profession. It's true that governments have done little to tackle this, but the shortage of medical professionals is a matter of policy from the BMA.
     
  12. Andyb666

    Andyb666 Member

    Except the BMA don’t decide the number of medical students nor the numbers of doctors. This decision on numbers of doctors is made by government with input from the centre for workforce intelligence. For medical school places the government has a cap on numbers in place and does not fund any places above the level of the cap.
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9735/
    With respect to consultants salaries. Yes they are well paid but this is after 5-6 years as students. Then 8-12 years as a “junior doctor” these are bright people who could get much higher salaries straight from uni by going into other professions and industries. Many are voting with their feet and leaving to go abroad or into other jobs. Consultant salaries have fallen the most in % terms since Tory rule from 2010.
    It is also much more than salary if you want to keep the best doctors.
    Finally remember the salary is for providing both regular daytime care and emergency cover 24/7 365 days a year. I have missed many family occasions birthdays, Christmas etc.
     
  13. HarryL1234

    HarryL1234 Screwfix Select

    The BMA is very influential and when I was at university the cap on the number of medical students was seen as determined by BMA policy. I’m not saying governments in the past 30 years haven’t failed - yes, ultimately government can go against the BMA. It’s convenient for government to accept BMA policy as a way to keep expenditure in check, but the BMA isn’t exactly blameless.
     
  14. teabreak

    teabreak Screwfix Select

    Hippocratic oath rewritten "Do no harm, or just don't turn up for work"
     
    HarryL1234 likes this.
  15. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    It only took a month to destroy the economy, Liz and Kwazi, what a pair! Cris, it's a fair assessment of the current state of affairs, you see further than other men and will be called a Woke Leftie for doing so. Sticks and stones eh?
     
  16. Andyb666

    Andyb666 Member

    Imagine going to work in dilapidated buildings, sewage leaks, inadequate IT that is a nightmare to use when it isn’t out of action. Lack of up to date imaging equipment (worst capital expenditure across comparable companies) fewer intensive care beds than any comparable country. Rota gaps due to doctor shortages filled by tired doctors coerced to work via a variety of means. Car parking charges of several hundred £ a year, no hot food on night shifts. There is more but we still come to work eventually enough is enough. IMG_2547.jpeg IMG_2547.jpeg [ATTACH=full
     
  17. arrow

    arrow Screwfix Select

    If the country was not so vastly over populated we would have enough doctors and the money to fund them.
     
    longboat, teabreak and Ind spark like this.
  18. Alan22

    Alan22 Screwfix Select

    Surely if you have more people paying tax you can afford to spend more on doctors or whatever?
     
  19. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    If the overcrowding is through people not working and not paying any taxes then we are looking at disaster, why does a consultant feel he needs a pay rise? Ok so he can earn more in another country but that other country has probably got a better grip on its economy or it is private medicine. There is a morality in the medical profession, surely they know the wage structure and hours of work before they even get out of medical school, do they have any scruples or morals any more. All this about helping people
     
    teabreak likes this.
  20. Alan22

    Alan22 Screwfix Select

    You could say the same for anyone though, and as things stand I have to pay an electrician's/plumbers/carpenter's day rate not far off what what I'd pay for a private health check, electrician's don't go on strike, they just give themselves a wage rise:)
     

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