Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Coldcut, Jun 27, 2018.
They look like 10mm 2C to me. Fine on a 60/63amp submain.
Why a pair of 2-core Lec? One for 24/7 one for Eco 7?
This thread appears to demonstrate the daily conflict in demands of society. On the one hand you have a demand from a third party to show that something is safe but the solution is to go off on a tangent and upgrade something without proper assessment. The thread is focussed (wrongly) on 30mA RCD protection. That only came in as an added safety feature not a mandatory one. If you were installing to 17th edition then you are obliged to put it in. That board was installed when RCD was not required. The correct approach would have been a properly conducted EICR. Two many conflicts of interest and poor advice on this forum leading to an unnecessary CU change. Only winner is the electrician, although £400 for two CUs is way too cheap. Maybe the only winner is the lessee? Instructing someone to upgrade the fuseboard is completely arrogant and shows a complete misunderstanding of H&S culture in this industry. The culprit as usual is 30mA RCD protection.
Yea, on older installs with three meters, there could be a smaller one too for just water. You used to get one tariff for heat, one for water and a domestic rate for the rest.
4 core was quite common too.
Dosen't the EICR mean its within the property as that's what they are asking for and that's where the fusebox is.
They want a test certificate passed showing that the old grey wylex fusebox has been replaced.
An EICR is an electrical inspection and condition report. It doesn't mean anything else as to whether its within a building, near a fusebox or within a certain area, its just a report on the condition of the electrical installation as a whole. They are often wrongly referred to as landlords certificates, but that's just a colloquial term that is meaningless for the purpose of the inspection. All you are required to do, under the terms of the agreement, is to satisfy the building owners that you have had your electrical installation checked and had a satisfactory outcome. The big problem you have, and it is a big problem, is that different electricans have different ideas as to what is safe, what needs updating, what constitutes a code C1, C2 or C3 and you will always get clowns who don't really know what they are doing anyway and others who use an EICR is an excuse to find things wrong and generate work. You have already had a flavour of this with the differing advice on the forum and reference to 30mA RCD protection that quite frankly is nothing whatsoever to do with whether your installation is safe. Lack of an RCD does NOT make an installation unsafe. Poor electricians think it does. So good luck and hopefully you will find a decent electrician who can properly assess the installation.
Thanks for your advice.
I have now found another electrician who said he can fit me a dual tarriff cu as he has fitted one or two already in the blocks.
His quote was £450 and its a 12 or 14 way, he couldn't remember off the top of his head.
The previous electrician who quoted me £400 for 2 cu said it was not possible to have a dual tarriff cu and he's advertising himself with 20 years experience and basically said the people on here didn't know what they were talking about.
So I will ask the electrician when he does the job, is my electrics unsafe.
I don't want to have to pay all that money to get the old fusebox replaced but others have told me, it won't pass in the present condition.
There is really no need to change the CU at all. CU's like yours can happily protect an installation for years. A thorough check on an installation requires it to be inspected for faults. Over the years installations are improved by successive publications of the wiring regulations and these changes will generally only apply to new work that is carried out when the new regulations are published. There is nothing preventing you to decide to have a new CU, that is your decision, but your final comment that 'it won't pass in its present condition' is incorrect. The ONLY thing it won't have is 30mA RCD protection, but, like I said in my previous post that is NOT what constitutes whether it is SAFE. It is whether the thing is damaged, all terminations are checked for tightness, all wiring inside it is undamaged and the protective devices are secure and of the correct rating. THAT is what should be checked not 'does it comply with current regs' because it won't.
If your sockets could reasonably be expected to be used outdoors, the lack of 30mA RCD protection would result in a code C2 and an “un-satisfactory” result, otherwise it’s a C3 and a “satisfactory” result. However, you would be strongly recommended to upgrade to include RCD protection.
Well I've got this reply from another electrician regarding your comments, and thanks by the way to everyone.
Anyway here is the reply,
I would not fit a dual tarrif DB as it would be two feeds into 1 board, i dont like doing it lile that. Rcd protection is not just for sockets outside it is for all cables and
accessories within the while the property. Its like saying the sockets downstairs have to but up stairs do not. To get a satisfactory cert it would have to be swapped. The whole idea of having a EICR carried out is to highlight any potential risks and get the property to a suitable state. The DB you have does not meet specifications that are required on the cert, it does not conform with fire regs outlined in bs7672 amendment 3. Which requires all DBS to be fully metsl enclosed which includes the lid. I would fail that DB based on that information and the lack of rcd protection.
Cables buried in a wall and not RCD protected is a C3 - satisfactory.
Circuits in a bathroom, if supp bonded, with no RCD isn’t even a code.
A CU constructed from a combustible material is a code C3.” - satisfactory.
Sockets that won’t be used outdoors with no RCD protection is a code C3 - satisfactory.
Sockets that could be used outdoors with no RCD protection is a code C2 - unsatisfactory.
Dual tariff CUs are fine. If he was not concerned about two supplies in an enclosure, he could use a 4 pole isolator at source. In reality, all that is needed is a “multiple supplied present” sticker, as supplied with a dual tariff CU.
I would advise you to go with a new CU, and I too would opt for a dual tariff type for neatness.
C1 - urgent remedial action required. Immediate danger present.
C2 - remedial action required.
C3 - used to comply to the regs, no longer does. Not dangerous.
Thanks again for your reply.
Hopefully in 2 weeks when I can get the work done, I'll have a new dual tarriff CU.
It is typical that the installation is not being mentioned, only the fuse board. To properly check that an installation is satisfactory the accessory plates need to be inspected and removed for a check on the wiring behind them and for damage. If you wanted you could just do a sample of a few upstairs and few downstairs.
I wonder what that electrician thinks about 3 phase boards if he doesn’t like dual tariff boards?
Thought i would just post an update of the 2 new CU i got fitted today
Also added the picture once he removed everything as some of you were curious about the pyro cables and what it looked like behind the faceplate.
He did move the pyro cables slightly.
Thanks to everyone who hopped on my thread and gave me advice,much appreciated..
Denmans Curve boards. Fitted one today. Mine was all RCBO, yours will be dual RCD. Cost!
Was this done by the person that didn't want to fit a twin tariff board? If so it looks like both pyros attach to the bottom board and one is extended through it into the top board. Bizarre.
Certainly looks the budget version of the options. Would of preferred equal sized CUs if stacking them.
I do like those Denmans boards though, its my one of choice at the moment, plenty of room inside, the breakers stay straight when you tighten them up and the RCBOs are about a tenner each which I've never had a faulty one yet.
The only thing I dislike about them is the square knockouts on the bottom, they only have a 32mm round knockout on the side and its rare you bring the tails out the side. If you want to fit a tail gland you have to drill the bottom with a cone cutter or whatever.
I use Denmans Curve a lot, too. They have improved somewhat since the plastic ones. I recommend you invest in a 40mm holecutter (Starrett is best) and use a Wiska 40mm tails gland. A sharp 'punch' with a well aimed hammer shifts the knockouts cleanly out the back. I was caught out the first time with the shape of the cover along the bottom edge, had to drill a half moon to get out of that one!
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