Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by koolpc, Mar 23, 2020.
I’d be careful, you could always come back with a Colombian necktie as a souvenir
British Anglo Saxon girls are generally all a bit rough looking.
Better trying Scandinavian countries
I'm afraid it's you that have been brain washed. I've seen the Covid wards and I can assure it's very real and very very deadly.
I've lost count of the deaths but one thing people are forgetting is all those people left permanently damaged or needing post Covid care. For every death there are multiples more that will probably need life long care.
I've had two doses of the vaccine and experienced no more than a headache....pretty similar to my flu vaccine. Very different to getting Covid which kills as many as 2% of it's victims. You should be grateful that your country offers you universal healthcare and a free vaccine. I a lot of the world a hospital bed is a luxury.
Dubsie, go into ICU at hospital in any year, at any time, and you'll find people dying... It's pretty standard.
Where on earth are you getting this "covid kills as many as 2% of its victims" nonsense? That is absolute rubbish!
As for the **** about "universal healthcare and a free vaccine", we PAY for that! It may be "free at the point of use" but that's only because we get stung by the taxman for our whole lives!
Boohoo you pay tax .....join the club. The vast majority take out more than they put in and please if you don't like it go and live in America where they'll stop your cover the moment you get a serious illness or inflate your premiums to such an extent that that it will become unaffordable. I lose 40% of my income but it's a fact of living in a western liberal economy where we fund services that make the UK different from a third world country.....that's the price we pay for education, healthcare
I love it when Covid wanna be scientists start posting **** about ICUs. Yes they are busy but they simply don't have the capacity for dealing with 1000s of admissions we saw only a few months ago.
You'd be the first to moan if youself or a loved one was rushed to hospital with life threatening illness only to be told there was no beds and no doctors because the hospital had to close its doors due to Covid influx..... because that's the reality of flippant policy.
Am I complaining about paying tax? No... I'm just pointing out the stupidity of your ridiculous argument that I should be "grateful" for something that Ive already paid for.
I'm getting utterly sick of being lectured by people like you who have swallowed the media hysteria and are making up "facts" like "Covid kills as many as 2% of it's victims".
People like you are doing so much more damage than Covid ever could, by jumping on your high horse at the slightest excuse to start scaremongering again.
We've already got millions of people who are too scared to go to their doctor or hospital with symptoms of cancer, heart disease etc because of rubbish about "not overwhelming the NHS", and still you spout your nonsense.
Scare mongering, I'm simply explaining why things are going incredibly slowly. We've been pretty lucky in Europe as we've been able to weather this.
By July we will all be virtually back to normal....but the next battle will be helping poor countries as what happens there could impact us in the west.
Considering India is extremely weathly I'm surprised by the chaos but again their government chooses not to provide universal healthcare, chose not to lock down..this is the result.....carnage and death.....same in Brazil.
The UK economy is booming, I've never been busier. I'm literally turning down boiler installations and the builders I know are booked until September. In July the hospitality sector will be in full steam and will make a full recovery. The outlook is positive and will continue to be while we follow the science.
So I'm optimistic that we can beat this and return to normal. I don't buy all this doom but I do respect those make the policy
Unfortunately statistics on Covid are so complicated it is really difficult to state any fact in a concise manner without almost endless qualifications.
For example the statement "covid kills as many as 2% of its victims" is obviously not right if you apply that to those who have been infected but show no symptoms.
In this case the definitiion of "victims" is those infected. If you, on the contrary, apply the same statistics to "case rate" rather than the "infection rate" the percentage, obviously, changes dramatically. If you also choose a time frame and age demographic the death percentage changes again dramatically. For example research from John Hopkins University for a particular time frame showed that the percentage death rate for those over 50 who were "cases" not "infections" was considerably more than 2%.
We then get into the argument of what they actually died of, co-morbidites etc. and how you define a case. I would suggest just looking at the ONS excess deaths to get a true picture of the impact. We then get to the next argument as to how long those who died would have lived if they had not caught the virus. It is quite possible that the death rate over the next few years in the over 60's will show a decrease as many in the that age demographic who would have died were finished off early, to put it very crudely.
I'm so tired of it
I'm planning to get jabbed to go somewhere actually
Whilst I agree on the building economics, as an electrician I am flat out and booked till the end of September, I really fear for other sectors.
The Indian variant looks set to cause trouble going forward, unfortunately the science is flawed and based on an assumption that when a virus crosses from animal to human it will initially spread havoc and the attenuate, becoming milder, joining the common cold as a pain, but not a threat.
The flaw, was that nobody considered the time frame in which that happens, it was assumed to be just a couple of years, but of course no one now alive was around when any of the previous coronavirus strains hopped from animal to human, for all we know it maybe took hundreds of years, even thousands, in a time with much lower populations.
It also wasn't considered that mutations could make it more aggressive in its transmission, the more it transmits person to person the higher the vaccination percentage required to stop it spreading, you might reach a point where it simply can't be stopped.
The real risk now, and it is doom and gloom laden, is that if this continues many businesses won't be able to get re started in a viable way, resulting in mass unemployment and a recession which will ultimately wash up in the laps of the I'm all right jack work from home brigade - at which point our building boom will end abruptly.
As I see it we have two choices, plan to live with the virus, which will entail permanent change to how we live and work, the building of new hospitals and sanitoria, like we had for TB, to keep infectious patients away from general hospitals. Accept that we will all probably die younger, and we will all probably loose more friends and loved ones during outbreaks - In the past thats how it was, when pretty much every disease was rampant and often fatal.
Aim for the difficult task of elimination, which we keep getting a stones throw from, and living as we always have, but with different arrangements for delivery of imports and heavily restricted travel.
So far the government has not done bo diddly to go towards either, with the assumption, based on little other than hope, that the thing will just pack its suitcase and get on the next plane back to Wuhan - there is so much talk about the New Normal, but aside from a select few being able to work from home (until their employers realise they can do without them) and some temporary one way systems it seems no plans have been made for it.
I wish we could just go back to life before this, but wishing and hoping are not plans!
One of the saddest things to this is seeng previously respectable travel firms becoming massive ponzi schemes, taking in bookings for things they likely won't be able to deliver, hoping people will defer and defer, until they get a run of refunds and collapse. My neighbour is going for a refund after deferral 3, as he says (and hes an accountant) I want my money back before everyone wants their money back!
Your neighbour is wise!
How long will they continue testing?. Spanish flu is still circulating now 100 years later.
The testing regime is a joke...
They don't trust the results anyway, why else would people coming to the UK be subjected to quarantine despite testing negative repeatedly?!
Totally agree, test and trace is a nonsense, it's a concept that works fine with diseases like ebola and cholera that spread more slowly and rapidly bring on symptoms, but with this, its unworkable.
It spreads better than a common cold, and a huge percentage have no symptoms, not a sniffle, so as you waste time surge testing in Bolton, Terry & Jane have headed off to Sheffield for the weekend and by the time they get back they have infected 8 more people, so you get a cluster in Sheffield and start testing that, same happens until you have so many cases you can't possibly test and trace them all - its a total non starter.
There are two solutions, a vaccine, which we now have, and herd immunity - Tedros, Whitty, Vallance et al all incorrectly stated that herd immunity from natural infection never ended a pandemic, however I bed to differ, two rounds of the black death/great plague, the sweating sickness, the russian flu (which may actually have been a coronavirus), and the spanish flu, plus numerous other outbreaks, all ultimately self limited without any intervention with drugs.
100 years ago man co existed with numerous virus' and bacteria and many diseases were in constant circulation, TB, Polio, Diptheria, Typhoid, Typhus, Cholera, Rubella, Measels to name but a few, nothing could be done about any of them, but mankind progressed and lived life, and occasionally dropped off his perch.
I'm all for the vaccine, I've had my two doses, but this aint going anywhere and we can't carry on in this lockdown / restricted way forever in a day.
Back at the start, they said, quite rightly, that there might never be a vaccine, then that a vaccine with a efficacy at preventing death of 30% would be good, well, we have a vaccine that has more than exceeded any expectations - and yet still they want more, they can't accept a single covid death, and in doing so are creating a financial disaster, a backlog of other treatments, that will lead to many more deaths - we need a workable plan, but none of them has come up with it yet!
Very interesting points @Tony Goddard.
It looks to me like they are heading towards wanting to test for this for years to come. Imagine going to a football game in 3 years time after all your jabs and being turned away and told to self isolate.
Or spending thousands on a round the world trip to then test positive at Heathrow. Its all looking very bleak.
If tradespeople can enter homes and more or less go about their business as normal I can't for the life of me see why they should be facing any restrictions in their private life's at all ?
Some kind of Covidsense card is what's needed,then issued to peeps with a proved competence in common sense followed up by a reassessment say every couple of years, very much like the gas safe thing is whats needed, if you ask me.
What works for Gas will also work for Covid19.
Really sound arguments Tony: totally agree.
I'm seriously hopeful that now everyone vulnerable is vaccinated, the whole social distancing/mask wearing nonsense can be consigned to history anyway...
Did you mean necessity?
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