Council rewire

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Awaywiththefairies, May 31, 2019.

  1. Awaywiththefairies

    Awaywiththefairies New Member

    Good afternoon all,
    Would someone give me a little advice regarding a rewire on my council property please.
    The council have subcontracted the work out, obviously to a group who are trying to keep costs low so there's a lot of trunking and cheap fixings being thrown about. That I understand.
    However I have an old plastic Wylex fuse board and I've never questioned it being changed with small jobs but for a rewire I was under the impression that it now needs to be changed to a metal one. I've asked to have a chat with the supervisor as he goes around between groups of lads doing the work but I'd like to ask on here too as a second opinion.
    Should they be fitting a metal board?

    Thanks in advance.
  2. mhar

    mhar Member

    Depends on the spec they are working to. I would be more concerned with the premature collapse regulation (521.10.202) with the trunking
    Awaywiththefairies likes this.
  3. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    The metal CU is a 17th edition AMD 3 requirement so they have been obliged to fit one since 2015. If they are carrying out rewires they ought to be fitting them now, we're in 18th edition now since 1 July 2018. The plastic trunking should have a few metal clips at intervals around the trunking but it is no more of an issue than lack of metal CU.
    Awaywiththefairies likes this.
  4. dobbie

    dobbie Screwfix Select

    Is it a flat that you live in and the fuse board is in a metal mantel cupboard ?
  5. Awaywiththefairies

    Awaywiththefairies New Member

    I do live in a flat but the fuse board is plastic and it's in a standard wooden doored cupboard in the kitchen.

    The guy doing the work for the company, sub contracted by the council agrees with me so I contacted the council to be told that it is 17th edition compliant and it's not their policy to change them so they won't!

    Think I'll be butting heads with them.
  6. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Member

    There is no reason to have to replace the board even if it is plastic if it still provides the required RCD protection as it is. Cost saving especially on a council job. Yes it would be best to but well councils and cost. Also if this is part of a larger upgrade of properties that were designed to the 17th at the time of tender then that they don't have to be installed to the 18th even if there has been a change in regs between the original design / tender stage and work commencing
    Awaywiththefairies likes this.
  7. Astramax

    Astramax Screwfix Select

    Who's paying?
  8. dobbie

    dobbie Screwfix Select

    It is not 17th edition amendment 3 compliant,if it is not changed then your rewire does not comply with BS7671.
    Awaywiththefairies likes this.
  9. Awaywiththefairies

    Awaywiththefairies New Member

    It's the council. I didn't ask for a rewire, they told me they had to do it.
    I do understand the cost cutting so I'm not concerned with all the trunking I've now inherited or the value range of sockets etc. I just needed to have clarity as to whether the board should be changed as per the current wiring regulations.
  10. Awaywiththefairies

    Awaywiththefairies New Member

    Thanks all for the replies,

    After appealing to the guy here on site, he took it up with his supervisor rather than the guy from the council. They agreed that the CU needed to be a metal one now and so it has been cleared. Shiny new metal CU being fitted!

    Unfortunately this probably won't be the case with the rest of the properties.
    KIAB and Astramax like this.
  11. Beeero

    Beeero Active Member

    Probably put you’re rent up now though
    Awaywiththefairies and KIAB like this.
  12. Astramax

    Astramax Screwfix Select

    Think that's called 'Payback time'.
    Awaywiththefairies likes this.
  13. Awaywiththefairies

    Awaywiththefairies New Member

    True, but it's decreased a couple of quid in the last 2 years so there was always going to be a time when that bubble burst lol.
  14. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    If you are carrying out a full rewire you must comply with all latest Regs and that means a board change. You should know that!!!
  15. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Member

    Yes ideally if your carrying out a full rewire you would change the consumer unit I don't disagree. The point is that if the existing board has all the necessary RCD protection for the replacement circuits being installed there isn't necessarily a need to have to install a new board. Just as you wouldn't need to replace a consumer unit if your were simply altering / installing a new kitchen circuit to a suitably existing plastic RCD protected board. There is no requirement to replace the board when you reach a certain number of circuits that have been / need to be altered.
  16. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member

    I don't see why, if you installed one new circuit you wouldn't upgrade the CU, neither would you if you installed 2 new circuits, or 3 or 4. If someone was paying and asked for everything new then you would change it but just re-wiring the circuits then I can see no reason to upgrade to a metal board if the plastic one still complies.
  17. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    Not sure of date think around 1992 the wiring regulations became BS7671 and since then there have been upgrades with dates and amendment numbers but clearly is wired to BS7671:2008 then it does comply with the regulations, just not the latest regulations, and as stated it would be the regulations in force when the work was planned that would be followed, and the regulations are not law anyway.

    Where the regulations do become law is when a scheme provider requires as part of the contract with the electrical firm for the regulations to be followed, or a client in their contract states to comply with current regulations, but since you don't know what was written in the contracts you have no control.

    My son was involved with council rewires and he said how the skips were full of rather good equipment as their contract said all lighting to be returned to ceiling rose's and to add insult, where it was not a ceiling rose the tenant was charged for cost of returning to standard.

    Even for council work in private homes, when required for a disability for example, they often selected the cheapest option or some whim of the council employee.
  18. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    I don't know if I am talking at cross purposes here? A full rewire requires that everything associated with the rewire complies with the Regulations at the time the rewire is STARTED. It has nothing to do with a Council Contract or when the Contract was signed. BS7671 doesn't say that if a contract was signed in 2010 to rewire houses for the wiring Regs at that time it is allowed to install all subsequent rewires to the same Regs. Where do you get these daft ideas from? Contracts are nothing to do with the Regs. The Regs couldn't care less what contract was signed. Or am I missing something? Its down to when the work is commenced and what Regs are extant at that time. Yes, I know you don't have to upgrade a CU for every situation you encounter, but a full rewire you DO.
  19. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    If this is a full rewire then surely everything is replaced to current regs, or it isn't a rewire
    Awaywiththefairies likes this.
  20. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Exactly! That's why I don't understand some of the replies. A rewire is a rewire, you don't cut corners and compromise Regs. I know Council house rewires are the roughest end of the rewire market, horrible surface mounted plastic trunking everywhere and cheapest tat available but nevertheless they should still do a full monty not leave the CU. The contractor is pushing his luck if he is not doing board changes. IMHO he should be reported. Don't know how he is getting away with it but doesn't surprise me either.

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