Council rewire

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Awaywiththefairies, May 31, 2019.

  1. Bogle Crag

    Bogle Crag Screwfix Select

    Might not be the contractor, from my knowledge of council rewires back in the day, all aspects of the work was specced by the councils COW
     
  2. gas monkey

    gas monkey Well-Known Member

    In house council cutting costs that simple you or I would not be signed off double standards good to quote back at them
     
  3. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Member

    It has to comply with the regulations at the time it was designed, not started.

    I just think its taking a broad brush to the term re-wire. Just because you re-wire a kitchen, for example, doesn't mean you have to replace a plastic board or even replace all the accessories

    If you rewired 1 out of 8 or 6 of 8 circuits doesn't mean you would need to replace a plastic board purley for the sake of it being plastic.

    Yes I would replace a board on a full re-wire but then im not working on council jobs. And it wouldn't necessarily be a requirement depending on the scope and design of the upgrade to the wiring
     
  4. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Lucky I really think you are misunderstanding the requiremnts of the Regs in terms of rewires. A rewire or full rerwire as its often called requires that every single aspect of the work complies with the latest Regulations. Thats just a fact, I really don't understand where you are coming from with your claim. Secondly, if you are installing a new circuit then it needs to comply with latest Regulations. You could probably get away with a board that is plastic but has all the other requirements. Installing two or more circuits you would need to upgrade the CU if its not metal or at least declare on the EIC that there is a non-compliance and produce a risk assessment as to why. You are giving incorrect advice by claiming you don't need to upgrade a CU for two or more new circuits. You Would only technically be allowed to keep a plastic CU if you are adding to or extending an existing circuit or circuits. If you don't use a metal CU you are not installing to 18th edition (nor 17th AMD3).
     
  5. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    I don't agree with that at all, I wire plenty of kitchen extensions and if there are spare ways in a plastic but dual RCD or RCBO plasic board then I would fit extra breakers to that for my new circuits, wouldn't dream of ditching a perfectly good board, where is the reg to say I have to?

    As for a full re-wire, in the description on y cert I put complete rewire and new consumer unit. A rewire is what it states - redoing the wiring.
     
  6. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Member

    If you are installing or replacing a board then yes, it would be a metal one to current standards. But you don't have to replace a board because you have added a circuit or two to a plastic one as long as it provides the required circuit protection. Your telling me you would try and upgrade a plastic board to metal just because your installing a new circuit.

    Again, I would upgrade a board on a complete re-wire and most would. That doesn't change the fact that you don't need to if the existing board offers the appropriate circuit protection.
     
  7. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    If you issue an EIC you have to fit a 18th ed. CU. If you issue a MWC then you do not need to replace the CU. The term "re-wire" doesn't even come into it. It's a yes or no answer. EIC? Yes. MWC? No.

    Don't get why anyone would think anything else tbh. It even says

    To be used only for minor electrical work which does not include the provision of a new circuit

    on a MWC.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  8. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    I feel a 20 page thread coming on
     
    Squashrobinson likes this.
  9. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    So if I wire one socket fed from a new 16A circuit, it would need to come from a metal consumer unit?

    As far as I'm aware if you fit a consumer unit then it needs to be metal but if there are spare ways then there is no need to fit one.

    Which reg precludes wiring a new circuit from a plastic unit?
     
    Deleted member 11267 likes this.
  10. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    The OP states it's a rewire, this means installing from scratch all cabling, and accessories, this means it's basically a new installation which must adhere to the latest regs, it's not rocket science tbh:)

    Unless it's a council job, and then different rules apply, apparently, it's who you know, not what you know:rolleyes:
     
  11. Have a read of frequently asked questions,there is no requirement for a metal consumer unit for a new circuit.
    https://electrical.theiet.org/media/1405/consumer-units.pdf
     
  12. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    You know I don't work in the trade, all I can tell you is that is what is written on the MWC.
     
  13. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

  14. You issue an EIC for a new circuit,not a minor works certificate.
     
  15. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    Exactly. And the EIC is meant to show 100% compliance with 7671.
     
  16. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    I would do all that myself if it was my job but I cant see what reg the council have broken by keeping the existing plastic board, they have just installed several new circuits from an existing consumer unit.
     
  17. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    Yet again the dreaded BS7671 rears its head, so many inconsistencies, so many ways to skin the proverbial cat, depending on how the electrician working to it interprets it.
    It's a total farce tbh, along with part P, politicians getting involved with stuff they know sod all about, attempting to get brownie points for their own gain, not actually serving the public and acting for their best interests/safety.
    Leave electrics to electricians and not politicians imho.
     
  18. Alan sherriff

    Alan sherriff Active Member

    If the consumer unit for filled all requirements for overload and shock protection and not damaged or sign of heat damage then there is no need to change . As for a full rewire to fully comply a metal consumer unit would make the job up to full spec with all bonding in place but if no board change is required as the contractor is not replacing then as before the regs are not retrospective if he changes for the reasons stated earlier then metal to comply
     
  19. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

  20. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    I think there is some misunderstanding about the need to replace a CU and the circumstances that may be relevant. There is no requirement to just upgrade a CU as a result of publication of new Regs. That I have always understood. Unscrupulous electricians say you do but they are just out for making money, nothing else. The introduction to the Regs is where the implications are best described.

    The Regulations apply to the design, erection and verification of electrical installations, also additions and alterations to existing installations. Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the Regulations may not comply with this edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading.

    What this essentially states is that you shouldn't simply upgrade old installations just to comply with the newest Regulations. That's all it states. There is nothing else implied. It doesn't mean that you can carry out a full rewire and leave a non-compliant CU in place. You would not be complying with the Regulations by doing that. Why would you even contemplate it? The cost of replacing a CU whilst rewiring an installation is negligible and cannot be justified. You would have to do exactly the same amount of work to get the new circuits connected so there is no time saving element either. What it also states is that new Regs apply to alterations and additions as well as new installations. IMHO this specifically precludes not upgrading a CU when doing substantial new work such as adding several circuits or partially or totally rewiring an installation. But see my last paragraph.

    There is ambiguity though. I don't see why the Regs. should apply to simple changes made to existing installations, such as adding a socket or two, adding a light point or adding a switch. I also don't see the need to make new sections of a circuit being extended or altered comply specifically with new Regs. So, in those instances I totally agree that you wouldn't need to upgrade a CU. I think you should, however, make some kind of risk assessment and include it with the paperwork although I have to confess I have never done so up to now.

    Now the metal CU element. I think this simply applies to installing a new CU and I agree it doesn't have to be metal if its compliant in every other aspect. That I agree with. So plastic CUs may afford adequate protection to a circuit and need not be changed for additions and alterations, including the provision of new circuits. :)
     

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