courses

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by diabloman, Nov 8, 2003.

  1. diabloman

    diabloman New Member

    Does any one of you sparkies out there know of any distance learning courses to improve basic electrics knowledge without going through the pain of suffering a city and guilds course for two/three years. I am asking this because i am self employed and it would be an advantage to be able to offer an extended service to my customers
     
  2. supersparky

    supersparky New Member

    when part p comes in not only will you have to be fully qualified, you must also be a member of an electrical body such as the eca or niceic. so next year you wont be able to offer this extra service anyway.

    BR
     
  3. artymike

    artymike New Member

    I am on the OLCI Plumbing course, its as long as you make it.
    I think they are going to rum a lecky one very soon?

    Mike
     
  4. diabloman

    diabloman New Member

    when part p comes in not only will you have to be
    fully qualified, you must also be a member of an
    electrical body such as the eca or niceic. so next
    year you wont be able to offer this extra service
    anyway.

    BR
     
  5. diabloman

    diabloman New Member

    does this mean that when part p comes into force that i won't even be able to wire up showers that i have installed for my customers and change their light fittings etc????

    DT
     
  6. supersparky

    supersparky New Member

    yup, as i understand it, you wont be able to doany work unless in other peoples houses unless qualified+ registered with one of the bodys

    BR
     
  7. diabloman

    diabloman New Member

    cheers supersparky, how the hell do these bodies expect us mere mortals to make a bleedin living.......seems you can't even take a dump without submitting a form in triplicate, being vetted by you local magistrate and slipping one to your mp's wife before getting the licence you require and even then it will be obsolete within 48hours after issue an needing to start the whole sorry process all over again


    DT (frustrated)
     
  8. Lectric man

    Lectric man New Member

    part p will also prohibit diy'ers carrying out electrical unless they obtain a completion certicate. You do not have to join eca or nic but you will have to apply to building crontrol for a certificate, however at this time building control do not seem prepared and when I have contacted them to ask how they intend to inpect and certificate work they just don't know. off the record it is suggested that sole traders like myself will have to obtain completion certificates from a local nic contractor to satisfy part p. can you imagine how much a local nic contractor will charge a rival business
    Watch this space confusion reigns
     
  9. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds New Member

    cheers supersparky, how the hell do these bodies
    expect us mere mortals to make a bleedin
    living.......seems you can't even take a dump without
    submitting a form in triplicate, being vetted by you
    local magistrate and slipping one to your mp's wife
    before getting the licence you require and even
    then it will be obsolete within 48hours after
    issue an needing to start the whole sorry process all
    over again


    DT (frustrated)

    You see what these bodies care about is that it's their members that make a living, not you.

    And as Lectric Man says, it's also going to affect DIY-ers.

    Except that, as far as I can tell, when the new regs come into force, you only have to be a "competent person" to self certify. If you think that you could justifiably claim that the work that you had done meets the requirements of the wiring regulations, then I think you are allowed to do it, and you are allowed to sign the first of the two full IEE forms to say so*, but you do have to notify building control before you start, and they, or someone they nominate, has to inspect it and sign the second of the two IEE forms.

    And, like L-m, I'm concerned about what a NICEIC or ECA registered firm would charge for doing the tests, and also what checks and balances there would be to prevent them falsely failing an instalation.

    I'm not casting aspersions on the population of electricians as a whole - I'm sure that the vast majority of them are honest and trustworthy, but if you're a struggling sole-trader or small business who is registered, and you see business taken from you by others, partly because as unregistered people their costs are lower, there will be an awful temptation to generate work by failing what the "unqualified" perso has done. Sadly, I'm equally sure that someone, at sometime, will give in to that temptation....

    *As well as an amateur electrician I am only an amateur lawyer. The value of my advice can go up and down. If in doubt, consult a qualified solicitor.
     
  10. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds New Member

    cheers supersparky, how the hell do these bodies
    expect us mere mortals to make a bleedin
    living.......seems you can't even take a dump without
    submitting a form in triplicate, being vetted by you
    local magistrate and slipping one to your mp's wife
    before getting the licence you require and even
    then it will be obsolete within 48hours after
    issue an needing to start the whole sorry process all
    over again


    DT (frustrated)

    You see what these bodies care about is that it's their members that make a living, not you.

    And as Lectric Man says, it's also going to affect DIY-ers.

    Except that, as far as I can tell, when the new regs come into force, you only have to be a "competent person" to self certify. If you think that you could justifiably claim that the work that you had done meets the requirements of the wiring regulations, then I think you are allowed to do it, and you are allowed to sign the first of the two full IEE forms to say so *, but you do have to notify building control before you start, and they, or someone they nominate, has to inspect it and sign the second of the two IEE forms.

    And, like L-m, I'm concerned about what a NICEIC or ECA registered firm would charge for doing the tests, and also what checks and balances there would be to prevent them falsely failing an installation.

    I'm not casting aspersions on the population of electricians as a whole - I'm sure that the vast majority of them are honest and trustworthy, but if you're a struggling sole-trader or small business who is registered, and you see business taken from you by others, partly because as unregistered people their costs are lower, there will be an awful temptation to generate work by failing what the "unqualified" person has done. Sadly, I'm equally sure that someone, at sometime, will give in to that temptation....

    *As well as an amateur electrician I am only an amateur lawyer. The value of my advice can go up and down. If in doubt, consult a qualified solicitor.
     
  11. Pugley

    Pugley Member

    I have a distinct sense of "deja vu" here. The last time this topic arose was on page 8 of this forum under the heading of "Qualifications" dated 31st October 2003.

    Please read this topic if you wish to understand the full scope of the problem. There are thousands of "competent" folk doing basic electrical work who could lose a part of their livelihood if a certification scheme is not introduced for existing "part time" skilled domestic electricians.

    Perhaps SCREWFIX might like to consider the impact this would have on sales of items in the Electrical section of their brochure??
     
  12. This wouldn't apply to work in DIYers own homes would it?
     
  13. Lectric man

    Lectric man New Member

    indeed it does... the same as working with gas ie corgi.but how it is going to policed ???? Ban all sheds is well in tune with this. it just seems to me that the large electrical contractors and especially the regional electricity boards who charge inflated prices, have lobbied for this not for safty but so they can squeeze the small local trader out of business
    bitter and twisted L-man
     
  14. Earthman

    Earthman New Member

    Add me (Degree in Electrical Engineering, Professional Engineer, C. Eng and all that) to Ban-all-Shed's list of very disgruntled competent DIY'ers. Because despite all aforementioned and messing with 'lectric and rewiring for 30 years after April 2004 I can't legally do much to my own wiring in my own home. Absurd.
     
  15. Ha, well, come and arrest me then!
     
  16. supersparky

    supersparky New Member

    i think it will be also a no payout policy on your insurance if a fire/accedent results from wireing not up to regs, similar to corgi, if the fire was found to be caused by a newly installed piece of wireing and you couldent produce the paperwork to prove it had been done by a registered sparys......ypu would be in deep sh*te to say the least

    BR
     
  17. So, if you're going to do any DIY, get on the phone to Chubb and have them drop round some fire extinguishers.

    Will the regs apply to any work carried out before April?? Say, if your house/flat had a fire that occured in May next year, but work had been carried out in March.

    I'm not worried mind, all my work is as good as that carried out by a spark, should know, used to work for one.
     
  18. supersparky

    supersparky New Member

    I wouldent think so, laws dont apply to the past, other wise we would be in a bigger load os **** than we already seem to be,,,,,,,

    BR
     
  19. diabloman

    diabloman New Member

    going back to the original question in hand.........does anyone out there know of any courses?????? If they have to be ****** and guilds then so be it, but obviously, i've not just left school and being supported by my mum and dad, so therefore cannot afford to do college full time, so one day a week max or evening courses are the only answer. By the way, colleges will need to be around northampton/rugby area of the country if anyone out there knows...... I will be eternally grateful.
     
  20. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds New Member

    "Professional" DIY-er
    I'm not worried mind, all my work is as good as that
    carried out by a spark, should know, used to work for
    one.

    Makes no odds. You could be the most competent electrician in the world, but unless you are a time-served member of NICEIC or ECA you won't be allowed to do DIY electrics any more without getting it inspected, tested and certified.

    DIABLOMAN - sorry, we have rather neglected you. As has been pointed out, no courses or qualifications are going to allow you to offer any meaningful services to your customers. I'm not aware of any courses aimed a DIY, so what's left is the dreaded C&G. Not sure why you're so down on those, but, whilst it'll do you no practical good, you could do a C&G 2381 (Level 3 Certificate for Requirements for Electrical Installations) at evening classes. 12 - 14 weeks, 1 evening per week, £100-odd.
     

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