CSCS Card

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Emraa, Dec 16, 2011.

  1. tom.plum

    tom.plum Screwfix Select

    " they will recieve a visit"   I bet they're quaking in their boots, the only time action is taken is when someone gets seriuosly injured, and then its the HSE that prosecutes, the cscs has a toothless bark, its a sheme run by schemers to make money, if you can't see that, you're either brainwashed or part of the mafia running it,
     
  2. andy b

    andy b Guest

    Thank you John I will look into what the procedure is but it will take me a couple of days. Site safety is important but I feel a lot of it is due to insurance companies. The cscs card I also feel is unnessesary and probably has not reduced accidents due to its implimentation. I do believe it is important that à tradesman is recognised for his workmanship. I dont like this rush rush get things done quicker and the quality goes out the window. I refuse to work like that and would not compromise my quality for quantity
     
  3. jeznotts

    jeznotts Member

    hello
    nice one andy for fielding all of these posts, looks like you have a hard job with this cscs thing, my problem was when i went to get my card  i was told that they wouldn't recognise the city and guilds qualifications i have,  that i was told would last a life time, how could this new system just cut us off? with out anything to aid us in place except the ' well just get a letter from your old boss, where you did your apprenticeship"!

    what about people who are 50 and their firm is long gone?that was just total cr@p "well you will have to do a nvq thing instead" well no i don't as i have this parchment from the london institute of city and guilds! and the kids i have worked with with have done this "not very qualified' exam can't hang doors with out a bloody stupid jig! please can you explain how that happened? imagine your driving licence was revoked because a new body of smart card carrying bell ends decided that the test you did is some how irelevent, overnight.
     
  4. andy b

    andy b Guest

    Jez i totally agree with you when the nvq system was first brought in i called it non valid qualification so i see where you are coming from. Two more things there was à big fire at city and guilds wiping out a lot of the paper based qualifications and proof. I also am old and i have my city and guilds etc and huées what i am an assessor and i cant have à card without doing the same test which i refuse to do. On the other hand i am Lucky i dont have to work on a site. I dont like saying this but more and more people are being made redundant or cant get à job on a site without à card.
     
  5. andy b

    andy b Guest

    Using my phone again ggggrrr so sorry about the break. ...... If it was my lively hood at stake and meant i had to have one to bring the family money home then yes i also would have to bite the bullet and get one so i can feed my family. I have great difficulty in supporting these cards as you are probably aware of by now but it is required and if you need one get one. The ewpar is still the easiest and quickest for a good joiner . I have failed people who cannot pass the professional discussion or the practical test.
     
  6. jeznotts

    jeznotts Member

    hello
    <h1> wow still up? me too! so as for the fire and they lost loads of records, what about the paper work/ certs we were given at the time? are they not trusted? like we all had little printers at home to fake these bits of paper? fire or not that was not our problem. and it is not up to us to prove that we are genuine as we have already done so, again i use the driving licence thing .if the dvla went up, do you think that everybody would have to sit their test again? well no of course not that would be ridiculous  i am just in awe of the pig headed stupidity of this thing, i did by the way get my card as luck would have it, my old firm was still in operation! so got that stupid letter and got the card</h1>
     
  7. andy b

    andy b Guest

    I have my certs and also agree that should be enough but they say it is à different qualification and they do not match . I am afraid i also feel it is unfair but i have tried to get them to allow people with certificates but to no availl . Sorry i cannot fox this its not from pack of trying
     
  8. tom.plum

    tom.plum Screwfix Select

    which all goes to prove its a money making scam and the profiteers are not in the slightest bit concerned about proof of trade or safety, its all bout the price tag, kerrching kerrching,
     
  9. andy b

    andy b Guest

    still not got a reply re who or how is the card scheme policed. soon as i get one i will put it on here.
     
  10. jeznotts

    jeznotts Member

    hello
    sorry about the massive type last time! anyways i just don't accept that these people decided that the city and guilds certs don't work anymore, i really want them to come out and say why, i have said this stuff before and i'm sure so have many others, you just can't do that , over night with a system that we were told would last forever, there should be a much easer way to do this than no.no.no ehawww, ehawww (stuborn donkey noise) it just not right i would love to see where this has been implemented before, even people that bought their driving licences from a post office before the test, didn't need to take a test afterwards, yes  i know that's was like 70 years ago but you get what i mean!
    actually thinking about it i think the response to me was that it didn't mean you had done any site experience, but i'm pretty sure that the only way i could go to college was because  was sponsored buy a joinery firm
    i bet you what you like this people can't hang a door with or without a jig and router, muppets
     
  11. andy b

    andy b Guest

    Hi Jez.  The NVQ system was brought in around 1991 and has been the trade qualification system since. As I have said it is not my personal choice I would much prefer the old City & Guilds system but alas this wont happen. I also accept that you are probably right there is no real reason to not accept us with our C&G certificates. But I keep coming back to the fact that some companies and more as time passes will not allow tradesmen onto sites without their cscs cards. I am still a firm believer in if you need one to earn a living then get one. If you dont need one then why bother. i dont think I am going to get any sort of proper answer from cskills about who polices the card system but I will keep asking. I am a little bothered that I have ruffled some feathers and hopefully it wont come back and bite me in the bum. If any tradesmen need a card it can take 1 or two days to get one but remember there is the need to gather evidence, fill paperwork in, and a practical test. i hope I have been helpfull in what I have posted.
    Andy
     
  12. andy b

    andy b Guest

    Forgot to say I teach the level 3 lads and I am 100% confident that not one could do the EWPAR practical test in the 6 hours allowed to do it in. The test is a very good test all cut by hand no powered tools apart from a battery drill. The fastest time anyone has done the test for me in the last two years is 3hr 25mins and by christ he was quick and good
    Andy
     
  13. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Thing is Andy, any worker on a site needs a CSCS card. It doesn't have to be the EWPAR variety. Just a basic operative card will get you on site, so ,,,, why didn't they just introduce the cscs card, just to say workers had passed the H&S test? Instead of the rigmarole of blue, green, gold, black, sky blue pink cards, etc? Surely any tradesman worth his salt will prove his skills on site within a few hours? ;)
     
  14. tom.plum

    tom.plum Screwfix Select

    If you see a man walking up a site carrying an Aldi bag with a 50p hacksaw and a lucky bag tape measure in it, he could have a guilt edged cscs card, but you know he's no tradesman, a tradesman don't need a card, like John says , actions speak louder than plastic cards,just a money making fiddle,
     
  15. andy b

    andy b Guest

    I agree the H&S card allows you onto site and yes you can tell a proper tradesman but to try to prevent the non tradesman from doing the tradesman's job is what I assumed the reason for the different cards. I also think that the system is flawed and perhaps requires a different approach but what I don't really know is how to approach this situation without having my licence removed for questioning the system. I am not a yes man and yes many times I have stuck my head above the parapet and had it shot and I will keep doing so only a little more tentatively. Still not got a reply I will wait untill next week then I will write again.
     
  16. andy b

    andy b Guest

    Ok gents here goes.
                            I finally received a reply from CSCS and I am gobsmacked...... Quote.     As CSCS is a voluntary scheme it is at the discretion of each site what card they want the workers to have, or if they want them to hold a card at all.  The green construction site operatives card is intended for labouring / basic skills on site, however, it is up to each site manager / foreman what work they allow employees to do with the CSCS card held.....
      Well I cant believe that it is now obviously unnecessary to have one, hold one or require one. In which case why the bloody hell should you or me need one. I am absolutely disgusted to find this out and it shoots its requirement to the bin as it serves no purpose.
     
  17. tom.plum

    tom.plum Screwfix Select

    and that's why I have never had nor will ever get one, Like i've said before and will say again for the benefit of those conned in paying for one,
    ITS A MONEY MAKING SCAM,
     
  18. andy b

    andy b Guest

    Tom you are probably right.
                                              I cant now comprehend how sites and companies can now insist you need one and justify it.

               I also think its back to the insurance companies insisting it would reduce the building companies costs for insurance,otherwise its meaningless.
                                 last but not least
                                               if you need one to get onto site how can it be voluntary
     
  19. Sean_ork

    Sean_ork Screwfix Select

    the voluntary element allows the main contractor, or contractor, or sub contractor to judge it on it's benefit's

    if a main contractor wants to do something to ensure everyone on his site has a minimum level of knowledge, they might opt to only take on card carriers

    if a subby wants to work on that site he has to decide if getting a card is worth it - the fact that it is so popular is just an indication how effective main contractors are finding it, as it's a basic form of pre screening potential starters
     
  20. tom.plum

    tom.plum Screwfix Select

    Its so popular because the course providers are in it to make money and convinced the constuction companies that persons carrying a card are more site savie, the 6 week cowboy also likes it because it gives him/her an admission pass to get a foot on the ladder to the univercity of the real leaning of construction, the hands on method, I see the boys and girls wearing a cscs card round their neck with a ribbon and a plastic cover, as the micky badge of a newly trained operative and a person who is more likely to cause an accident, like a driver on the road with a green 'P', give them a wide berth,
     

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