CSCS " worker certification"

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Paul Fear, Mar 18, 2018.

?

Agree with this post

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    As a carpenter, I now need £6,000 worth of tools, NVQ2, cscs, asbestos aware, face fit mask, tower scafold permit, saftey harness certificate, nail gun certificate. The list goes on. Yes companies make a profit from their workers productivity, but they are now making a profit by shifting costs onto workers. You might be interested to know that the Arab spring was triggered by an occupational licence. Carry on, keep denying the poorest access to jobs and see where it gets you! And by the way I have been a carpenter for 37 years, I am a damn sight safer than someone with 2 years experience and an NVQ2.
     
    Jimmycloutnail, Jord86 and Sparkielev like this.
  2. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    The issue of cost (and profits and directors' remuneration) is one for the directors of the construction companies. To take on CSCS you are targeting the wrong victim. As for your skills and abilities, with all your kit and experience you will be doing the job quicker and better than the 2nd years lad/lass so earning more. But wouldn't you like to feel as safe with them as they do with you? If you abolish CSCS or any similar scheme......
     
  3. AlvyChippy

    AlvyChippy Active Member

    We have slid of sense of general CSCS and NVQ question.

    I agree completely, that IE somebody in training for NVQ or employer would need to provide (pay for) couple of days mandatory SAFETY training,
    else, as I run the job, I trust my tradesmen to be sensible them-self, having "cards"- mean absolute 0 to me in either quality of workmanship or the regard for safety.
    Also, every single one already has Public Liability Insurance, so in case something happening, it wouldn't even bother my Insurance, my job is to do proper induction, in accordance to the plan for particular job.
    @WillyEckerslike
    Lets say, I am constructing for somebody "bigger"...- his responsibility is to get copies of inductions (by me) and daft as anything records of "cards"- all of them mean absolute 0! it makes him not a bit more confident or personally responsible for workmen and works safety.

    Lets say for a youngster it is good to have learning and qualification to give me confidence he MIGHT be of ability to do quality work, but it really does not connect with safety of his or mine or anyone, in any way or shape or form.

    BTW, I am only a youngster, been in construction industry for 19 years, have had 2 "decent accidents" where one I simply have been numpty, second one- unavoidable, my safety card obtained at much later stage absolutely would have never made any difference.

    If anything, what is positive from all of this pallava- I agree, one or anyone, that runs the job, has to be persistent and very thorough in induction methods, but most importantly is to NOT apply pressure on workers for speed, but need to be safe... (keep on repeating- issue of his Insurance costs), still irrelevant to some fake "qualifications"

    The truth is, one can be as clever as you like on academic level, but as it comes to actual work- useless pup
    and most likely somebody without enormous list of cards, but "good hands" will do the better quality job.
     
    Jord86 likes this.
  4. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    If the industry needs occupational licenses then government can legislate, cscs breaks the non retrospective principles of our common laws by surreptitiously using section 40 of the health & saftey at work act 1974. Cscs requirements are set by the construction leadership council who are basically a bunch of corporate CEOs. Don't bend the laws of the land for your own benefit and expect the rest of us to ignore what you are doing!
     
  5. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    Well at least I'm not alone - I was expecting to be in all honesty.
     
  6. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    Agreed, as I said before I have no objection to a health and safety course for workers, but the stuff they are putting on us now is just ridiculous, it has become a rentseeking scam.
     
  7. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    I emailed CITB. In 2016 Agency umbrella payroll companies paid £12 million in CITB levies , CITB returned only £600,000 in grants to workers and only £160,000 was for NVQs that these workers now need. Remember these umbrella companies charge workers for payment that is how they pay the CITB levy.
    CITB legislation needs changing so that workers can claim for grants directly rather than through the employer. Hence my petition in part is to put pressure on CITB and to raise awarness of the certification scam.
     
    AlvyChippy likes this.
  8. AlvyChippy

    AlvyChippy Active Member

    Movement has been started, not many people can be bothered or to be in believe, that they can change something. but you and I are on the same wagon
    https://www.facebook.com/CSCS-A-Bloody-SCAM-295599590556650/
     
  9. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    Something has to change, I am not on face book but feel free to post my article and petition. Cscs has been promoted by contractors to put costs onto workers, because they can't be bothered or are too stupid to assess the competence of the workers they employ. I can see protests begining.
     
  10. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    Out of interest my card expires shortly so I did a little internet research - it's less than £50 (£12.50 per annum). It costs more to fill the van with fuel.
     
  11. AlvyChippy

    AlvyChippy Active Member

    I paid £975 for mine... and although wanted Management card, due to experience, there was no option for such to do without actually going to the actual course at a £2200... as if there is anything, they could have taught me...
     
  12. sospan

    sospan Screwfix Select

    You guys are lucky, I am not even allowed to work on a construction site - consequence of a head injury and having to take horse strength pain killers.
     
  13. Trevor Derbyshire

    Trevor Derbyshire New Member

    I have here in my hand a piece of paper.
    Experience Experience Experience is the qualification.
    I have been a bricklayer for 30 odd years and have just completed my NVQ with an "Assessor"
    All of it was paper work which a 4yr old could answer.
    I signed about 15 bits of paper.
    IT PROVES NOTHING apart from me being able to sign my name
    IT'S ********
     
    Isitreally, Paul Fear and AlvyChippy like this.
  14. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    Well it proves that the workers are being scammed by a bunch of rent seekers. Hope you sign the petition because they will keep increasing the requirements, this scam won' t end till we end it!
     
  15. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I looked at getting a CSCS card but because I have been doing this so long I would have had to pay money to one scammer to prove to another scammer that I could do my job, couldn't be rrrs'd
     
    Paul Fear likes this.
  16. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    Yep, that about sums it up. Hope you can be rrrs'd to sign the petition and show these scammers the door or preferably kick them through it.
     
  17. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Your petition is Welsh, I'm noto_O
     
  18. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    I've been impressed by your approach and research thus far but advocating violence weakens your case I'm afraid.
     
  19. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    Agreed, but there is no location restriction, you can sign just click ? And enter your location. CSCS is voluntary therefore Welsh government can refuse to use it or promote it on government contracts. This would damage cscs standing as good practice and remove its power of occupational licensing. It is just one battle and we could win if enough people sign it.
     
  20. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    Well you like cscs and that is economic violence against the poorest in society. Tell me are you happy that a parents have to pay for endless tests to reduce employers liabilities and increase employers profits while workers children live in poverty. Do you not think that that is a violent act? It is you and your kind who are the violent ones! Stop trying to shift the blame.
     

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