CSCS " worker certification"

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Paul Fear, Mar 18, 2018.


Agree with this post

  1. Yes

    11 vote(s)
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
  1. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    After typing senis into Google to decipher what it meant, the first website that pops up is for mentally handicapped children. I thought you were being hilariously evil humoured, but now it's a happy accident it's even better! :D
  2. AlvyChippy

    AlvyChippy Active Member

    Back on a topic ;)
    Started subbing last week for a some chippy firm for a very, very prominent developer. Today we had a weekly "tool talk" session and I couldn't help but to ask site foreman's opinion...
    100%- fact after factor, he was saying same old as we talked here- utter rubbish in 90% of cases, only would/could/should matter, if someone is coming onto a building site first time and being in its teens or a first or second year of trading...
  3. kitfit1

    kitfit1 Screwfix Select

    Been watching and reading this thread when it started. As a kitchen fitter it does not affect me one bit at all. I fit and get paid by the peeps i fit for.....................and i don't fit for any builders of any sort any more. So i can't say anything or add to peeps that actually work on building sites now.
    I do have a view though. Years ago there used to be a company called CORGI, i was a registered Corgi installer, because i fitted gas hobs and ovens during the course of installing a kitchen. As a Corgi registered installer over the years, Corgi found more and more ways of extracting more and more money out of me and all other installers. During the late 1990's there was a plumber that had an artical on a plumbing magazine that pointed out that we didn't need to be Corgi registered, because the law only said we had to be competent. Corgi registered installers left Corgi by the 1000's. Within a few years we now have what we have, Gas safe and the Niecic. We have that because the law was changed to say it was illegal to work on gas or electric unless registered with Gas Safe or the NIECIC.
    My asnswer to the OP is, if you get the Welsh Assembly to do what you want................................the replacement will just be the same company doing the same thing...............................only this time backed by statute. And backed by statute.........................................if you think they are ripping you off now.................that's nothing compared to what they will do when backed by the law.
  4. AlvyChippy

    AlvyChippy Active Member

    bit gloomy, almost fair and a tad "defeatist", if I may?
    that has been projected by OP in narrowing down in to the area of governmental projects and carpentry... although point of plumbers and electricians (discussed today personally), have been of the most "minor comforts" in this regard.
    Still whole card issue is bleedin' scam and without interested ("legally informed" parties) hardly is going to get put right?

    it is down to us "in the industry" (senis/seniams (older-more experienced) ) tradesmen to voice our perspective? ;)
  5. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    If cscs had been created by legislation then it might be considered political. However cscs is not legislative, in effect corporate interests have been gifted the democratic power of occupational licensing. Tell me, why hasn't government legislated? why have corporates been gifted this power?
  6. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    As far as my reference to Arab spring. This was not political. Occupational licensing such as cscs, restricts the ability for the poorest in society to access even menial jobs. This means that they are in effect excluded from society, that creates real social problems for ALL of us ( arab spring was an example, since it was triggered by an occupational licence) try reading about it! I have destroyed every argument you have put forward in favour of cscs. Now in order to justify your argument you simply say that my argument is political. Well my argument is not political it is social & it is about the non retrospective principles of our common law.
  7. AlvyChippy

    AlvyChippy Active Member

    You are killing it...
    (Less interested already)
    WillyEckerslike and Jord86 like this.
  8. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    I was just correcting what had been said about me and my motives.
    As far as cscs is concerned, if it really was to do with safety the CITB test would be tailored to individual trades. Anyway most accidents on site are caused by moving vehicles, trips/ falls and electricution. Cscs is about making money off the backs of workers and eliminating competion from small firms so that corporates and large firms can take a bigger market share. Self employed sub contractors & agency workers are not even represented on the board of cscs or the construction leadership council but they make up the largest number employed in construction.
  9. AlvyChippy

    AlvyChippy Active Member

    Bhuut arab spring...
    Over and out!
  10. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    Fair enough. But excluding people from work won't end well. So I will keep objecting to cscs because everyone should have the right to work and should not be excluded simply because they can't afford to buy an NVQ. At least I have got off my **** and tried .
    Jord86 likes this.
  11. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    Thank you Paul.
    If you had chosen to read my post #48 on this topic before you went off on one you would have noticed that I had taken note of the arguments put forward by respected colleagues on this forum and endorsed the campaign - on their behalf, not mine I might add. Your rant has just cost you your greatest advocate on here. On a minor point, I wasn't the first to point out that your comments had political undertones either.
    Ho hum.....
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
  12. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    There is definitely something other than just workers rights stirring this particular pan of soup.
    WillyEckerslike likes this.
  13. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    I am not a flashy politician with a political agenda.I am just a carpenter trying to earn a living. Cscs has got all of us on their tread mill and they can increase the speed whenever they want. I may not word things correctly, I am not PC, but i know cscs is a scam.
    WillyEckerslike likes this.
  14. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    If I might offer some will intentioned advice? Read Jord's post #43 again and take heed. Back off from all the political references, the capitalists versus the down trodden masses etc, and unpick CSCS for its failings - why it isn't working, how it is being abused and so on. Cite examples of organisations that are misusing it.

    I doubt you and I could agree on much of anything but hear me out. I think a system of this nature should have it's benefits providing a safer workplace, certified proof of transferable skills and importantly a competitive edge over other contractors. At £12.50 per annum I treat that as an occupational hazard. In principle it works for me however I completely get that it doesn't for you - and the majority of respondents on here. I think you need something though because if you do away with it you'll be happily fitting a staircase one day when a digger bucket comes through the wall operated by some 'mate' of someone else who 'said' he could drive a JCB - no proof required! It's clear that the majority don't agree with me or think that the current system isn't working (or both most likely) and seem to want change. What's your alternative or do you think that nothing is required? If the companies take on the cost by the way, I think it will simply manifest itself as something else - reduced rates for the job I suspect - as the directors need their bonuses and the shareholders their dividends......

    So to repeat myself. 'I wish you well in your campaign' but I think you will make more headway if you calm down.
    Jord86 likes this.
  15. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    I did not start yhis
    I did not start this petition with any political agenda in mind. My words have been taken out of context and have obviously caused offence. This was not my intention and apologies to those who have been offended. The petition has enough signatures to be considered by the assembly. So I shall continue with the process, to abandon it now would be unfair to those who took the trouble to sign.
    Jord86 and WillyEckerslike like this.
  16. stevie22

    stevie22 Screwfix Select

    If I could comment on Willie's post above, a CSCS card does not necessarily confirm competance especially with machine drivers. A chap landed on a site I was on a few years ago complete with certificate and 3 days later was still pulling 1 lever at a time on a 3 tonne mini digger: hopeless.

    In contrast the foreman wouldn't accept a certificate issued by the Australian government offered by an operator (who was subsequently proved to be first rate) because it wasn't on his list of acceptable card issuers!!
  17. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    I have seen this with trades too. Gold carded carpenters but could not cut traditional roofs. This petition was a last ditch attempt. I've been a chippy for 37 years, now i am told that my knowledge and experience is worth nothing. So yes I am annoyed about cscs. My CRO card runs out in a few months I cannot work under cscs in its current form so i will not be renewing my cscs card or taking an nvq. Don't know what i will do after that since carpentry has been my life.
  18. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    Totally understand where you are coming from. Why not think about alternative ways of using your skills, not just selling them out to builders/contractors? Perhaps specialize in timber framed garden buildings? similar skill set needed - planning, accurate construction, detail finishing etc. but client is private end-user not cost counting commercial. Also seems to me while I've been looking around for myself that there must still be some decent margins in that business. Just a thought. :)
  19. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

    It is an idea thanks. I certainly can not continue to work in an industry where a life time of experience & skills are treated with such contempt.
  20. Paul Fear

    Paul Fear Member

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