Cupboard door frame - not square

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by Janaka, Jul 29, 2007.

  1. Janaka

    Janaka New Member

    Hi.

    I have a new house. Bathroom has a cupboard-type recess space which looks like it has never had a door on it. Thing is, the frame (of 2"x2") is irregular. Width of the opening at the top is 272mm. At the bottom it's 285mm. The side I need to hinge from is not vertical.

    I plan to make a surface mounting door (i.e. it will sit outside the frame).

    Are there any type of hinges I can use which will work in this situation or do I have to adjust or rebuild the frame in some way.

    Thanks for any help.
     
  2. Ion Transient

    Ion Transient New Member

    you could try packing-out the bottom hinge but this a bodge really..

    if it were me I'd rebuild the frame nice and true/square
     
  3. big all

    big all Screwfix Select

    heeelllooo janaka and welcome :D:D:D:D

    you can use these flush mounted hinges
    http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=63852&ts=16301


    you mount them on the inside face of the door with the knuckle on the edge pointing out but you need clearence between the knuckle [pivot point]and the wall of the thickness of the door

    so if your frame is attached to the wall and is 44mm wide you will only have around 12mm to play with so line up which ever hinge is closest to the wall first

    big all
     
  4. big all

    big all Screwfix Select

    that should be 6mm if its 44m or 12 if its 51mm
     
  5. big all

    big all Screwfix Select

    the clearences where assuming the door is 18mm thickness
     
  6. Chekhov

    Chekhov Member

    Ion Transient writes:"you could try packing-out the bottom hinges but this is a bodge really...
    if it were me I'd rebuild the frame nice and true/square.
    And this from some one who on another thread recommends bodging internal mitres on skirting boards rather than sticking to the gold standard of best practice which is scribing!
     
  7. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Don't wanna start all this up again, but, if you are good at your job, internal mitre can be just as good as scribed.

    'Course, if you are only part-skilled, scribed makes it easier for you.



    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  8. Chekhov

    Chekhov Member

    You can use a chain saw for all I care if you get the desired result but I'll challenge anyone to match my joints!
     
  9. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Hi.

    I have a new house. Bathroom has a cupboard-type
    recess space which looks like it has never had a door
    on it. Thing is, the frame (of 2"x2") is irregular.
    Width of the opening at the top is 272mm. At the
    bottom it's 285mm. The side I need to hinge from is
    not vertical.

    I plan to make a surface mounting door (i.e. it will
    sit outside the frame).

    Are there any type of hinges I can use which will
    work in this situation or do I have to adjust or
    rebuild the frame in some way.

    Thanks for any help.



    Top hung, bottom hung, any good ?


    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  10. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    If I'm reading this right and you're making your own door the only problem will be the door opening on its own and a magnetic catch should sort this out. Get a strong one.
     
  11. IOC Chippy

    IOC Chippy New Member

    You can use a chain saw for all I care if you get the
    desired result but I'll challenge anyone to match my
    joints!

    Ok I admit it YOU roll the best joints!
    which joints were you talking about? I have no doubts that there are many people who can match your joints and do them faster and cleaner, they go by the name of... Woodmachinists.... lol

    Ok now I hope everyone stops picking on the internal mitre man - I use them all the time and they work for me - but thats on bolection mouldings, glazing beads and anything else other than skirtings.
    besides you should all be thankful that people who use internal mitres on skirtings keep us in work.
     
  12. Janaka

    Janaka New Member

    OK now boys, let's keep to the topic in hand......


    The cupboard is 1720mm tall so top hung bottom hung won't work but it was a good thought.

    Big All's suggestion with the surface mounted hinges sounds like it will work. I'll let you know what happens.
     
  13. philpolish

    philpolish New Member

    Seems pretty simple to me if you are making your own door why not make it to the size of the frame?
     
  14. Trog

    Trog New Member

    Sorry to trash this thread but Mr Handy "Don't wanna start all this up again, but, if you are good at your job, internal mitre can be just as good as scribed.

    'Course, if you are only part-skilled, scribed makes it easier for you."

    I'm a 27 years experienced time served carpenter and I have to say that is some of the biggest load of ****** I've ever had the misfortune to read. *

    [Edited by: admin5]
     
  15. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Sorry to trash this thread but Mr Handy "Don't
    wanna start all this up again, but, if you are good
    at your job, internal mitre can be just as good as
    scribed.

    'Course, if you are only part-skilled, scribed makes
    it easier for you."

    I'm a 27 years experienced time served carpenter and
    I have to say that is some of the biggest load of
    ****** I've ever had the misfortune to read. *



    Ha ha. So you can't cut a good mitre either!

    Useless.


    Mr. HandyAndy - really

    [Edited by: admin5]
     
  16. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Seems pretty simple to me if you are making your own
    door why not make it to the size of the frame?

    I know, I can't see the problem either, or why flush hinges would be better than butt hinges. If the stile isn't vertical the door may tend to open or close on it's own but other than that..........
    And as for the internal scribe/mitre argument. Yawn....
     
  17. dunc

    dunc New Member

    I would take out the 2x2 and rework the frame. The very least you could use to reframe would be timber linings, which come out at 1 and a quarter inches.
     
  18. Chekhov

    Chekhov Member

    Mr HandyAndy, I don't know where you live but I've never, ever seen an internal joint on a skirting board mitred. Nor have I ever come across any one suggesting it's better method than scribing.As has been noted above, no matter how good your mitre is in the first place, a mitred joint can and usually does open up due to atmospheric conditions which is why scribing internal joints became the benchmark. Furthermore it's nothing to do with a lack of skill. I can cut a perfect external mitre with nothing more than a handsaw and a well trained eye. As "Troq" said "internal mitres for skirting boards are a "no no". If you can show me a training establishment that teaches otherwise I'll saw my toes off with a jigsaw!
     
  19. dunc

    dunc New Member

    I have argued the rationale for internal mitres in other threads.

    They are not impossible to do. They just present a different set of factors one has to take into consideration to make them work.

    Scribing is the industry accepted method. It represents reliability and speed of production.

    Therefore both work, but the industry endorses scribing as it is beneficial to production. Therefore they endorse its training and use on site.
     
  20. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Mr HandyAndy, I don't know where you live but I've
    never, ever seen an internal joint on a skirting
    board mitred. Nor have I ever come across any one
    suggesting it's better method than scribing.As has
    been noted above, no matter how good your mitre is in
    the first place, a mitred joint can and usually does
    open up due to atmospheric conditions which is why
    scribing internal joints became the benchmark.
    Furthermore it's nothing to do with a lack of skill.
    I can cut a perfect external mitre with nothing more
    than a handsaw and a well trained eye. As "Troq" said
    "internal mitres for skirting boards are a "no no".
    If you can show me a training establishment that
    teaches otherwise I'll saw my toes off with a jigsaw!



    Firstly checkov, I never said internal mitre is better than scribe.

    I said a mitre can be as good, if you know what you are doing.

    Shrinking in the corners will also affect a scribed corner.

    But if you have mitred the corner well and fitted it correctly, you will have a good joint.

    As you will probably be aware, wood shrinks mostly across it's grain. So the opening up of mitred corners is not that big a problem, and if they were fitted tight the length shrinkage would also not be a problem.

    I have still yet to find a 16mm skirting that has shrunk to 15mm, so the thickness shrinkage should not be a problem.

    The shrinkage in height of each skirting will be equal, and will also not affect the joint.


    I don't have problems getting a good mitre joint. If you do, then that's your problem, not mine.


    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     

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