Cures and Charms

Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by Ryluer, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

    My Dad has always believed in these. I'm a strong believer also and have seen them work many times.
    I've even seen veterinary surgeons condone their benefits with work on animals.

    My neighbour I know well took a heart attack a few weeks ago so I went to a local lady with the "cure" for a heart attack to help him. In fact he had took several heart attacks and the doctors were treating him for a bad stomach.

    I needed his full name and address so when I asked for that he was reluctant to give it to me.
    He said he feared the cure sending him the other way basically. (even though the doctors had nearly done that)
    I was with him for a good few hours talking to him about various things and trying to put his mind at rest that everything would be just fine and was about to leave empty handed and despondent when his wife arrived home and she persuaded him to give it a go.

    He never directly said but I'm pretty sure he believes its the devils work.
    Any thoughts?

    Should I just mind my own business next time?
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  2. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    If he's your neighbour,(you know well) surely you already know his name and address ??
  3. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

    He's a few mile away. But being in the country he's still a neighbour.
    I know it partly and don't know any middle names which the "cure" lady had also asked for.
  4. plumber-boy

    plumber-boy Well-Known Member

    Sounds * to me.

    Edited due to unsuitable language
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2015
  5. Please tell me you're yanking our chains, Ry?
  6. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

    Yanking your chain about what?

    My neighbour nearly died, why would I yank your chain about something so serious?
    In fact one of the doctors told him he shouldn't be here.

    He has two stents fitted and it will be 6 months before they can do more tests to determine the full extent of the damage to his heart.
    He can barely walk 100 yards without collapsing at the moment. He's home from hospital 10 days now.

    His brain and heart have to re synchronise themselves. Because the flow is opened up again his brain can't quite figure out what is going on.
    He was smoking 40 a day and now he has quit. He's 46.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  7. Ok, I'll say this once - just once. I really don't want another argument with you...

    You clearly wish the best for this poor soul, but he also clearly has a knackered heart and it's going to peter out sooner or later.

    Currently, he's getting proper treatment, at least as far as his condition can actually respond to treatment. Perhaps he's beyond medical help, we don't know. It could now be down to just plain 'luck'.

    Then we have stuff like the 'Cures and Charms' you mention - this falls under the umbrella of 'Alternative Medicine' along with things like homoeopathy, crystals, prayers, ground-up rhino horn, cheetah testicles and such stuff.

    It is all barlocks - and I don't just mean the last one above.

    Complete and utter bar locks. Nonsense. Rubbish. Fabrication.

    Some of it will be suggested with the best intentions - with real 'belief' behind it. Others will be the work of true charlatans - a cynical money making venture.

    None of it will actually work in any medical sense. Ever. Ever.

    Sometimes it can have a beneficial effect through what's known as the placebo effect - the recipient will 'feel' better as they actually believe they are getting something special.

    But it won't be a true physiological effect - it will not cure them.

    Sometimes it's even worse than this. It has happened that misguided victims have given up on the proper medical treatment they've been receiving so they could concentrate on the 'alternative'. One such twit was Steve Jobs.

    Some of these 'alternatives' can also interfere with the carefully-administered medicines and treatments from the medical professionals.

    So, please be careful if this local 'lady' actually proffers 'medicines'. That could back-fire horribly (unlikely, but it could.)

    Ry, please put your common sense hat on now. This very minute. And ask yourself - why did this lady require his full name and address? What did that information add to his treatment?

    What you are doing by sitting with this guy and chewing the cud is true humanity, Ry - that makes a difference. So full credit to you for doing that.

    Alternative medicine is... I think you know what it is in your own heart of hearts.
  8. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

    If they don't work then why do vets condone their use on animals?

    We had a cow recently put her calf bed out and we mentioned getting the cure for bleeding. My brother is a strong believer in cures and charms also.
    And the vets own words were "wouldn't be a bad idea".
    That from a fully qualified MRCVS veterinary surgeon.

    Local guy we know has that cure. A lot of farmers go to him.

    How does a cow determine the "placebo" effect?
    So ultimately I know in my heart of hearts that they work. They work for us, they worked for my Dad and his Dad before him.
    And hundreds of people in my locality make use of them. I guess it was a long shot to think that someone on here might believe in them.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  9. plumber-boy

    plumber-boy Well-Known Member

    Ryluer you believe in it, we don't, end of.
    If you don't like peoples opinions then don't post up.;)
  10. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    A few years ago a very good friend of mine Alsatian dog was riddled with arthritis, his vet suggested a magnetic coller, he thought how will that help but was desperate for the dogs sake so tried one, within a couple of days the dog was like a puppy again with a real spring in his step, now the dog wouldn't know the difference so something strange was happening.
  11. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Ooo Arrr. and oi bet when that cow dies, you'll tell the vit'nary "Shey died o't consumption o't lungs, ahh tell thee, ,, consumption o't lungs." or (another farmers favourite) " It were struck be lightnin ahh tells thee... Tha cans't tell by't spittle cummin out o't mouth.. Aye vit'nary, put that down on't insurance form." :p:p:p:p:p
  12. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Aye, then't dog wandered ot't ter't road like, an were run over by't No34 bus ter Ottenthwaite. :p:p:p:p:p
  13. R.W_Carpentry

    R.W_Carpentry Active Member

    If you're the one mentioning the cure to the vet then he/she is unlikely to say "no point in that, load of rubbish" , in the same sense they wouldn't tell a religious person not to pray if they mentioned it. It's being polite and tolerant of others beliefs, especially since this sort of thing can't make things worse so no point in telling someone not to do it if they really want, keeps them happy, but it's not exactly condoning the benefits.
    Then again maybe the vet has the same beliefs, but that's not proof that anything works just because that person is a qualified vet, their belief in these cures surely can't be that great otherwise they wouldn't of felt the need to become a vet and help the animals themselves.
    With regards to your original question, I'd say yes to some extent next time mind your own, as DA says it's great you want to help the guy and everything but as soon as he objected to it I would of dropped it, obviously has no belief in it himself so fair enough what more can you do.
    Personally I'd sooner try one of those magnetic collars that phil mentions than worry with these cures and charms.
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  14. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Sorry for my last two posts, Tha's cans't tell ahhv been't readin them books by that vitnary chap, James Herriot. An Ahhv ad enough of't ter alcolohic drinks ter bring down't Mr Tweddlstwaite's prize shire oss. ;)
  15. Phil the Paver

    Phil the Paver Screwfix Select

    Are you drunk, why is it funny that the dog had a better life.
  16. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Read my last post Phil,,,,, I have (what I feel to be) a good sense of humour. ;);)
  17. Sod it - I love an argument. Er, discussion... :rolleyes:

    Ry, you are entitled to believe what you want. As is everyone else.

    I know there's nothing I will say on here that'll persuade you otherwise. Y'know how I know that? Because you said I am "a strong believer" and "I know in my heart of hearts that they work".

    You are a fundamentalist. Rational talk will not change your mind. So I doubt I'll bother even trying.

    However... there is that small matter of the MRCVS vet. He, according to you, said "wouldn't be a bad idea" when it was suggested that the cow's owner went to a 'crone' for a 'cure'?

    Ok, a number of possibilities...

    1) What he said was misrepresented here. After all, we only have your somewhat dodgy word for it. But - hey - let's assume that's what he did say. In which case, we have;

    2) The vet knew the cow was going to be fine anyway, so he was just offering a platitude to the cow's owner - 'If it makes you feel better, then no harm - get on with it'. However, if he had himself given proper medical help and/or medicine to that cow to help the bleeding, then he was very foolish - actually unprofessional - to also allow (encourage) the owner to go for 'alternative' treatments as well.

    3) The vet knows his clients are backward yokels who believe in this bull, so he is keeping himself 'on-side' by not actually ridiculing their beliefs. He knows what side his bread is buttered. Or perhaps he doesn't want to alienate the owners for the sake of the animals.

    4) The vet is a bit of a twit and actually accepts 'alternative' medicines as being partially legit. He might think they 'compliment' his own proper medical practice. As I said - he's a twit.

    5) Possibly he knows that the crone will actually give her version of 'proper' medicines - ie: actually tried and trusted medicines obtained from plants. Medicines that are known about and do actually work; let's face it, many medicines are obtained from plants, and they do work. Know what these are called? Yes, 'medicines'...

    6) Can't think of anything else - that's not to say there isn't one.

    I had to look up MRCVS. I found their main representative website and tried a surf for 'alternative' and 'homoeopathy'. Guess what was returned? Zilch.

    I'll go further - if this vet is seriously encouraging these simple farmers to go seek the 'cure' from this weird crone down the road, then he needs reporting.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2015
  18. Yep, something happened. But it had f'all to do with that collar.

    That story is exactly that - a story. An anecdote. Scientifically defunct.

    No doubt the dog's owner believes it helped. And perhaps it did help a bit, because dogs are amazing creatures that respond completely to their owner's actions - they sense more about our behaviour and movement and body language than we begin to fully appreciate.

    So, the owner fitted the collar and was then more enthusiastic about playing with the dawg and taking him out for walks.

    Before he fitted the collar he, instead, went "Poor Buddy - there there, you take it easy my ol' son..."

    Now, if you were to repeat that experiment properly - two near identical dawgs with near identical levels of arthritis, one fitted with a magnetic collar and one with f'all, and both treated exactly the same, well you know what the result would have been.

    Don't you Phil?

    Please tell me you know... :(
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2015
  19. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Well said DA. I reckon Ryluer's been reading them James Herriot books again. (like me) ;);)
  20. Ryluer

    Ryluer Well-Known Member

    I did drop it. I'd certainly never try and force the guy to accept something he didn't believe in.
    In some ways I'd rather his wife had not intervened as it took the decision away from him to some extent. And also they offered no gift in return which doesn't bode well.
    Many Vets believe in the cures and charms because they know they work.
    Its not about being polite as you put it.

    Incidentally my Dad had skin cancer some years ago. He never went to doctors but instead used a local cure. Which did the job.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2015

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