Cures and Charms

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ryluer
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I don't know if this is :D or :eek: :

From a Newsnight investigation; "nearly all the pharmacists providing homoeopathy whom they visited were willing to dispense homoeopathic malaria prophylaxis – with one explaining to the researcher that the remedy would fill a malaria-shaped hole in her living energy."

And that's the kind of utter nonsense that these charlatans thrive on.
 
Ryluer said:
It doesn't speak for itself in the slightest.
You have no idea lad.
Absolute none and live in a world of complete ignorance.
Click to expand...

:)

Just wonderful. What an example you are to the world of this silliness. Evidence evidence evidence - more and more and more; homoeopathy is a sham.

But, stick to your line - it clearly gives you comfort.
 
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I'm guessing you must be some kind of townie raised house bound stay at home house husband who spends his days hoovering and reading womans own to be so ignorant of the ways of the country.
Damn I'm good.
 
You just don't get it.
Was talking with our customer today (race horse breeder) about cures and charms.
He noted one guy who could cure an eye sty.

You phoned him up and he asked you to look into a thorn hedge. Then he would p*rick his eye lid with a black thorn.
Thousands of people don't go to this guy because they have nothing better to do. He has the name because his cure actually works.
I'd hate to live in your sad world where you can only relate to science for answers. So sad indeed.
 
DA...
I reckon...
Scientific research is funded by governments.
Governments are at the mercy of the big corperations...like pharmaceutical corparations.
The funding is given to research that ultimately serves the pharmaceutical corporations.
So...they publish **** that says that 'alternative' medicine and treatments are innefective.
Thus keeping people programmed to thinking there is no other way to treat disease or illness.

Do you really believe all you read in papers,the media??
That is true ignorance. Never questioning what you are told to believe.
It has been proved time and time again that we are constantly lied to,by the 'fat controllers' of this world,through mainstream media,government reports etc.

Ignorance...a great word...IGNORE-ance..(the act of ignoring?). Not wanting to look at something that you are programmed not to believe...just in case it's true??

What is frustrating is that having said a number of times that,for example,homeopathy works for me and my family,all i get is sarcasm and insulting comments. Are you implying that i am lying?? Why should i? Why should all those who use homeopathy lie about it's effectiveness? They don't because....guess what,.it works!

Ah,yes,you may say,but it's that placebo effect thingy again. Well..the placebo effect comes into play with every type of medication,alternative or not.

You can look at all the 'evidence' and 'research' you want,i suspect a lot of it is bull,and you are going to end up believing what you want to.

The best evidence of something is personal experience.

But you dont have personal experience of homeopathy,do you?
Perhaps you should try it sometime,with an open mind..you may be pleasently suprised:)
 
I guess this makes a change from thinking about underfloor heating,and screeds:D
 
Ryluer said:
He noted one guy who could cure an eye sty.

You phoned him up and he asked you to look into a thorn hedge. Then he would p*rick his eye lid with a black thorn.
Thousands of people don't go to this guy because , once he'd done it twice, he became blind
Click to expand...



Corrected that for ya Ryluer . :p:p:p:p:p (click on your quote above, and all will be revealed)
 
Ryluer said:
You just don't get it.
Was talking with our customer today (race horse breeder) about cures and charms.
He noted one guy who could cure an eye sty.

You phoned him up and he asked you to look into a thorn hedge. Then he would p*rick his eye lid with a black thorn.
Thousands of people don't go to this guy because they have nothing better to do. He has the name because his cure actually works.
I'd hate to live in your sad world where you can only relate to science for answers. So sad indeed.
Click to expand...

Cure an eye sty by pricking your eye lid using a black thorn?

You are 100% certified loon.

Ever heard of the cure for a skin wart? You rub the wart for a week using a raw onion.

That works too - well, I mean in many cases the wart disappears.

I don't relate to science for answers per se, it's just that only science has the answers. And if it were ever proven that there was a god, for example, then 'science' would answer that too. You know why? Because what science requires is 'proof'.

There's a lot about science that is absolutely 'magical', and before these things were fully understood, they did appear magical. But - of course - they aren't really magical; they have a rational cause which in many cases still require a full explanation.

If something exists - is really 'true' - it's because there is proof for it. Otherwise it's conjecture.

Some things - like homoeopathy - have been postulated for a couple of centuries - and has been categorically proven to be a false idea.
 
barnjules said:
DA...
I reckon...
Scientific research is funded by governments.
Governments are at the mercy of the big corperations...like pharmaceutical corparations.
The funding is given to research that ultimately serves the pharmaceutical corporations.
So...they publish **** that says that 'alternative' medicine and treatments are innefective.
Thus keeping people programmed to thinking there is no other way to treat disease or illness.

Do you really believe all you read in papers,the media??
That is true ignorance. Never questioning what you are told to believe.
It has been proved time and time again that we are constantly lied to,by the 'fat controllers' of this world,through mainstream media,government reports etc.

Ignorance...a great word...IGNORE-ance..(the act of ignoring?). Not wanting to look at something that you are programmed not to believe...just in case it's true??

What is frustrating is that having said a number of times that,for example,homeopathy works for me and my family,all i get is sarcasm and insulting comments. Are you implying that i am lying?? Why should i? Why should all those who use homeopathy lie about it's effectiveness? They don't because....guess what,.it works!

Ah,yes,you may say,but it's that placebo effect thingy again. Well..the placebo effect comes into play with every type of medication,alternative or not.

You can look at all the 'evidence' and 'research' you want,i suspect a lot of it is bull,and you are going to end up believing what you want to.

The best evidence of something is personal experience.

But you dont have personal experience of homeopathy,do you?
Perhaps you should try it sometime,with an open mind..you may be pleasently suprised:)
Click to expand...

Paragraph 1 - ah, the conspiracy theory :rolleyes:

Paragraph 2 - do I believe everything I read in the media? What a truly ignorant - and quite insulting - question. What I use for everything I wish to understand is critical reasoning, something that is missing from those with religious belief and who claim success for alternative medicine, for example. 'Critical' means that you don't 'believe' something that's put to you without evidence.

Paragraph 4 - Do I think you are lying? No, not at all; I just think you are deluded - you really do believe it. Many (most, probably) of those who favour homoeopathic medicine are also believers (ie - deluded) but there are a good number who know darn well that it's snake oil but are riding quite nicely on the proceeds.

Exactly the same as religious belief: the 'followers', the 'lambs', the 'flock', are true believers, but many, many of those with the title 'Rev' are complete charlatans who take full advantage of these poor unthinking people, either for money - or worse.


Have I tried homoeo? When I was a teenager, suffering badly from hayfever, I went into either a chemists or whole food shop (can't remember) on the Island I lived on and bought a pack of homoeo therapy for hayfever. I was ignorant of what homoeo therapy was at the time- I just assumed it was a bona fide treatment and it was on a shelf for hayfever. It made f'all difference - my nose still ran like a tap.

What you claim is evidence is anything but. It is the 'evidence' of an individual's claim. That's all you have - a bunch of people who claim it works, like the prostrate rantings of the poor soul who's found salvation in gawd.

Subject these claims to the most basic of independent tests, and they fall apart. Completely.
 
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Silly man.
You are confusing evidence with proof.
You have no proof whatsoever for what you believe.
...and the 'evidence'is just that which you choose to believe.

As i heard a physicist say once

"There is only proof in mathematics and alcohol":D
 
Science will never have all the answers. Which shows how gullible you really are when you think science has the answers.
And is why scientists cannot explain why cures and charms work.
 
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I bet you two (ryluer and barns) believe god created the earth in 6 days too. ***
 
advocate thinks and believes science created it but cannot explain how and has no evidence. How daft is that?
 
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barnjules said:
Silly man.
You are confusing evidence with proof.
You have no proof whatsoever for what you believe.
...and the 'evidence'is just that which you choose to believe.

As i heard a physicist say once

"There is only proof in mathematics and alcohol":D
Click to expand...


I will let this paragraph just sit there as the summation of your position. I couldn't have put your case better myself.

Nice.
 
Ok, ok, ok, Ry - are you willing to do a bit of critical thinking? Because hard-core evidence is not always required to work out what is 'likely' and what is 'not'.

Let's use a couple of examples from this thread.

Example No1 - the black thorn in the eye stye. Ok, I will absolutely grant you that this cure is quite possible. When I look at it using my critical faculties, I have to conclude that there are a number of ways that this could indeed have worked.

They are, for example:

1) The thorn simply pricked the abscess, released the pus and hastened the cure.
2) Better than that, the black thorn in particular might very well have natural antiseptic properties as lots of plants do. So it may even have helped kill off the bacteria as well as release the pus. (Fairly easy one to test in the lab should one be inclined.) And, if it turned out that this thorn does indeed have genuine curative properties, and it was very successful in curing such infections, then it would likely become part of the medical world's weapons against infection. Ie - it would become a 'medicine'.
3) Ok, nothing to do with the thorn as a cure - it's just that most styes last only a few days before bursting and sorting themselves out, or being tackled by the body's own defence system.

So, I hold my hands up - this could work. Why? Because there are rational, testable, provable, scientific reasons why they could.

(Mind you, I bet there's an even greater chance of spreading the infection doing this, so caution please folks...)


Example No2 - the 'cure' for a heart condition that requires the 'curer' to know the patient's full name and address...

Is there any way that this information can affect the outcome for this patient? Um...uuuuuhhh...er....

I can't think of any. I'm pretty sure there ain't any. I'll go further - there simply cannot be any way that obtaining a patient's full name and address can have any bearing on their cure.

I mean, if you accidentally missed out one of their middle names, would this provide only a partial cure? What if you misspelt part of their name?

What if their actual heart condition began a week ago when they lived in the house in the next village, but the main symptoms only appeared after they moved to their new house 3 days ago - which address do you give them?

Ry - are you using your critical faculties? Please use them. Please.

So, I am as certain as a certain thing (ooh, 99.99999999999% certain) that there is no way on this planet - or any other planet - that this information can possibly contribute to this person's cure.

But, I can think of a couple of ways that this information can be used to help the suggestion of a cure... And the following are genuine reasons why such suggestibility does work, and is used by charlatans:

1) Insisting that the 'curer' is provided with this detailed information helps to convince the gullible that there is something behind it - I mean, they are soooo 'tuned in' to this patient that they can only effect a cure when they 'know' them so well. The greater the performance, the more sucked in the believers. This is TRUE. People swarm to Islam because it demands more of them - all these bludy prayers every few hours - it ain't easy you know. All that ramadamadam nonsense - what's that all about? Because it demonstrates your loyalty - that's all. That's why Islam and Catholicism are the fastest growing with the strongest (more fundamentalist) believers - wow, you can really show how committed and devoted you are. And why the nice gentle CofE is falling by the wayside - all that religion asks of you is to be nice and kind.

So, by implying "This will ONLY work if I have ALL their personal details - RUN! RUN! QUICKLY BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE - Go get their full name and address!!!" makes the unclear of thinking feel that there must be something genuine behind this 'treatment'.

Astrology - another pile of complete barlocks. As if the time of you popping out of your mother can possibly have any bearing on your personality. That simply doesn't require any more analysis. But, its adherents still make charts, use maths, use 'science', use software, to try and make it look more real. To try and give validity to their simple (and I use that word deliberately...) belief.

2) Any other reason why these name and address details are needed? Well, if this curer was a 'professional' charlatan, ie: one who earns their living carrying out these 'cures', and knows exactly what they are doing; deliberately exploiting the vulnerable for financial gain (and there are plenty of them, even on TV - that utterly repulsive Colin Fry cove for instance), then they will use this info to gain extra medical background on the patient from records - so they can then show how well they've 'worked out' what is wrong with them. Again, this is TRUE - there have been plenty of examples of such people being exposed as con artists.

3) Any valid reason for wanting this info? I cannot think of any. Can you?


Ryluer, I really hope you have read the above. Please reply with your own critical analysis.
 
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