Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by Deleted member 33931, May 14, 2018.

  1. It's sooo god to hear from the good Miliband again.

    Is it too much to wish for a return to front-line politics? A Labour party led by David and with Starmer as, say, Foreign Secretary would decimate the Tories and bring this Brexit idiocy to an end.
  2. koolpc

    koolpc Well-Known Member


    Brexit will be the best thing for this country. We need to break free of Europe trying to domineer and steer this country.
  3. Kooli......lol :)

    Where are we being steered to now?

  4. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Well-Known Member

    You may be fooling yourself and some others, but you're not fooling me.
  5. koolpc

    koolpc Well-Known Member

    Early days guys. Have a bit more optimism. We not even left yet!
  6. Precisely... :rolleyes:
    Dr Bodgit likes this.
  7. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Well-Known Member

    As I understand it, the main reason for Brexiteers for wanting to leave the EU, is to bring back "control" to this country and this government, making it "sovereign" again. To what extent these objectives are realistic is debatable.

    What I have not heard, however, is any argument that leaving the EU will be financially beneficial for us. "We're better off economically out of the EU" is not a an argument I've (a) seen anyone support (b) heard by reputable bodies supporting.

    Most Brexiteers I believe, want to leave the EU at any cost. So please don't try and fool me that leaving the EU will be positive for the economy.
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  8. And if that ain't a definitive enough point, 'sovereignty' itself as a 'reason' for Brexit was a deliberately misleading concept bandied about by the Leave campaigns, and swallowed wholeheartedly by the jingoists who make up the bulk of their followers.

    Whatever 'sovereignty' we regain from cutting our economic ties, unions & markets with the EU will be reinstated to an almost-certainly greater extent with every single deal we try and make with other countries and with the EU itself - with every deal you make, you effectively lose some control over what you 'want' for yourself.

    Even having to trade on WTO terms - which is what a 'hard one' would likely involve - would be a massive 'loss' of our 'sovereignty'.

    At least with the EU, we agreed these terms for our mutual benefit, and the policy controls we handed over to them we did so voluntarily, again to our mutual benefit. That is what a trade deal is - we agree to be bound by mutual rules for our ultimate benefit. Folk can call that 'losing your sovereignty' if they really want the comfort of their glibbisms.

    What we currently have with the EU will be as nothing compared to the shafting the rest of the world will be lining up to give our isolated and weakened country afterwards. And no amount of shouting "Don't you know who we are?!" is going to help.

    Sovereign? We always have, and we always will be.
    Dr Bodgit likes this.
  9. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Many EU countries are unhappy with the EU. Did you all think the UK alone was unhappy the way the EU dictates the way forward ?
    Sovereign ? Tell us exactly how we have always been sovereign DA (since joining the EEC/EU ) Any areas where we still have our true sovereignty ?
  10. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Well-Known Member

    That's beside the point. I am unhappy about our relationship with the EU, but I'd be even more unhappy to be separate from it. You don't divorce your wife if the relationship's not perfect do you?

    Sovereignty is not an all-or-nothing concept. We are and have remained "sovereign" but everytime we agree a deal with another country we cede some level of sovereignty. Sure we'll get some sovereignty back when we leave the EU, only to cede it again when we make trade deals with other countries.
  11. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Is this the same David Miliband who is head of the scandal hit International Rescue Committee ? Hmm, no wonder he's trying to get back into politics.
  12. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Hmmmm I have been divorced twice. So what is the point again ?
  13. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Well-Known Member

    Just because you don't like scenario (a) doesn't mean the only other option available, scenario (b) is better.
  14. DIY womble

    DIY womble Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't vote for labour until brexit is well over with as I think we need a stable conservative government to deal with world trade , labour is a bit lost at the moment , nice to see his passionate speech the other day , all round good guy
  15. Name them, and tell us why. Then tell us which ones are actually going to leave like we are?

    And then name all the countries wishing to join.

    Don't just say 'stuff', JJ. Pleeeeeeez, man :oops:.

    As to prove my point, JJ cites 'sovereignty' again in the Leavie manner.

    Carry on, JJ. Or try a wee Google - summat like "Is Great Britain a sovereign state?" Pleeeeeze don't just say meaningless 'stuff'.

    While you are at it, tell us how our 'sovereignty' will alter after we 'leave' - especially if it's a hard one. Better or worse? If 'better' you'd also better explain how.
  16. gadget man

    gadget man Well-Known Member

    Here we go again..:D
    Deleted member 33931 likes this.
  17. HarDeBloodyHarHar

    HarDeBloodyHarHar Active Member

    If you are not best pleased with the way it is going, living a lie is the worst thing to do.
  18. longboat

    longboat Well-Known Member

  19. Heat

    Heat Well-Known Member

    Glad we are leaving the EU.
    We never voted for it, so it was undemocratic.
    Labour Party still has idiot Jeremy leading them, so they won't improve thankfully.
    Let us just all get on with supporting Brexit and become a more individual, forward thinking nation, rather than allowing us to be a money box for the EU.
    dobbie likes this.
  20. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Sadly, there are some on here that actually seem to hate being British. They have absolutely no chance of “ getting behind this country”. What they do have is this peculiar trait of wanting the U.K. to pay even more into EU coffers. No doubt influenced by some dreamt up scheme in their neighbourhood, funded by the EU. ( not realising that whatever funding the EU gave us back out of our contributions for the scheme, has to be matched equally by our own government.) In effect, the EU telling us how to spend our own money.
    One has to assume a lot of these people live in the middle of a forest, but up to now haven’t seen any trees. ;););)
    dobbie and Heat like this.

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