Dedicated Spur does, will it stop Spike Surges from power tools etc

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by adamfromayr, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. adamfromayr

    adamfromayr New Member

    Hi guys


    Can you Sparksy by trade please tell me


    Will getting a “dedicated un-switched Spur fitted” to the main consumer unit help or eliminate any spike surges to a shop security system?

    As the builders were in using power tools and the system failed after this


    Would a Dedicated Un-switched Spur, of help stop this?

    Rather than it being plugged into shared normal wall sockets as it was?

    Adam
     
  2. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    There is no such thing as a “dedicated un-switched Spur fitted” to the main consumer unit.

    Do you mean a spur from the consumer unit? Most cases where a dedicated smoothed supply would be used would be for delicate instrumentation equipment or IT kit. Even then it would be fed via an UPS. SO if you fed your security system from a UPS it might work.
     
  3. Dr Bodgit

    Dr Bodgit Super Member

    Do you mean taking a radial from the CU, on the same MCB that's feeding the ring final? It might help a bit with spikes but not a lot.
     
  4. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    When you say t 'failed' what exactly do you mean. Most electronic switching power supplies have an input filter on the supply to prevent the switching PSU affecting the rest of the installation and to prevent the installation affecting it, ie spikes.
     
  5. adamfromayr

    adamfromayr New Member

    Hi ive been told by a Lot of Security Tagging System Installers there should be a "dedicated spur" for the 240v Power pack to be hard wired into
    This i know helps prevent false alarms and stops electrical surge spikes to the Security controller for the Tagging system the Power Pack needs 240v but if using the power from a normal house hold socket it will cause false alarms as the power is shared down the line!

    So im aksing will a dedicated spur to the consumer unit, Be better??
     
  6. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    I answered your question in my first post. Not sure there is a lot else to say on the subject other than it's a good job Security Tagging System Installers don't work as sparx.
     
  7. adamfromayr

    adamfromayr New Member

    anyone else can advise?

    Basically will i dedicated Spur from a Consumer unit, with it being an unswitched 13a socket help spike surges?

    I been told many times it helps as the security controllers have a 230v input, then from thereon in its like a PC

    and if it was say: plugged into shared sockets when the power tools etc were plugged in it could cause an electrical spike surge! FRYING THE Security controller?

    any one else?
     
  8. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Your question has already been answered by @Coloumb.

    The reason they recommend a dedicated circuit is because if it is wired on another circuit, a fault on that circuit will cause your security systme to fail as well. Putting it on its own circuit will reduce the chance of that happening, but it will not stop spike surges.

    kind regards
     
  9. spinlondon

    spinlondon Screwfix Select

    Do power tools cause spike surges?
    From my experience on sites, they seem to cause drops rather than spikes.
     
  10. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Power tools can cause spikes and general noise. Especially older brushed, badly maintained tools that may, or may not have spark suppression components.

    Any worth-while trades person should be using 110V equipment with a safety isolation transformer. I think that should reduce mains-borne interference.
     
  11. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Adam, nothing gets fried, nothing surges. Its all alarmist talk from people who know little about any of it other than hearsay and rumour. Security alarm systems are always fed from an un-switched fused spur, usually 3A, purely to allow correct wiring from the spur to the power supply inside the main panel and un-switched so it can't be simply switched off by an intruder. There are always battery backups inside the alarm panel anyway so even if the alarm was switched of its still going to work and set the sirens off. There are also fuses within the panel to protect elements of the circuitry on the PCB. Using power tools is not going to influence anything that happens to the security panel. If there were problems with it someone may have cut a wire or drilled through a wire and that would mess things up. Contractors are notorious for denying that they did anything as it affects their tight arsed profit margins.

    Putting the alarm system on its own circuit is purely a convenience issue. It allows other circuits to be turned off without affecting power supply to the alarm and likewise if a fault occurs on any other circuit it won't affect the alarm. However, it DOESN'T MATTER if it is fed from another suitable circuit also used for other things. It doesn't create surges or spikes or anything like that.
     
  12. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    Maybe its the vibrations as opposed to any spikes, and as someone said above there is no connection between the mains and 12 volt output on alarm switched mode power supplies except maybe a suppression capacitor or choke, so the feed to the alarm PCB is isolated anyway.
     
  13. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    Security Tagging System like many other systems are really running on DC, some where the 230 Vac is turned into extra low voltage DC and the unit doing that should if correctly designed removes any spikes.

    The are RF problems with some equipment like drills with arc splash on the brushes but the place to stop it radiating is as near to the motor as you can get, normally fitted inside the handle. Using a site transformer helps as well, but in essence it is the builders you want dedicated circuits for with RF filters not the electronic equipment.

    Very early in my apprenticeship I was told to fit a car radio, I read up on how to stop interference, so chokes, capacitors, earth straps, everywhere, I could not stop the interference, old guy came along and said try putting this radio in the car instead and see what it's like, all interference gone, he said just tell him to buy a decent radio, and you likely have the same, you can run around chasing your tail trying to get the Security Tagging System to work, but at the end of the day the Security Tagging System should reject the interference, if it doesn't then get one that does.
     
  14. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    They ask for a dedicated spur so they don't have to mess around installing one, I think it may be a way of avoiding Part P involvement. Nothing to do with technical issues.
     
  15. Rulland

    Rulland Screwfix Select

    Grade 2 systems, which 99% of domestics are, can actually just be plugged in, the requirements change from grade 3 upwards.
    One normally uses an unswitched fused spur purely to stop the system power from being unintentionally removed by whoever.
    I have only ever plugged one system in in 15 years, and that was down to the abominable state of the existing wiring in a property.
     

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