Deposits on installation only

Why am I being smug. I'm not fortunate to have a good
customer base. Its because I am good at what I do and
I am reliable. Sorry if that appears smug but its the
truth. Im not going to temper my opinions because it
annoys you. Sorry but if you have been in business
for any period of time and havent got a solid
customer base then you are obviously doing something
wrong. Having a good customer base doesnt just happen
by chance it happens because of the way you conduct
yourself. So explain to me how your customer just
changed her mind then, when did you book the job in,
when was the last time you spoke to her, where you
working off a written quote

I don't know why you are being smug, it probably makes you feel better about yourself.
You don't annoy me, I was merely trying to stop you patronising members of this forum who perhaps haven't got your business skills but still have to live their lives the best way they can.
I don't how my client changed her mind, I'm a carpenter not a psychologist, but when I spoke to her on Friday she said she didn't want some varnishing done but didn't mention a floor where she didn't need the parquet relaying or the other floor that didn't need screwing down.
It wasn't off a written quote, as I usually do, because it was a recommendationn

 

I dont think other people need you sticking up for them. How can you accuse me of being patronising when surely you are being patronising by suggesting that others need you to defend them. Right this is the situation. Business is a tough world and if you dont have the business skills to cope as well as the physical skills to run your own business you will not succeed. Getting paid off customers and getting customers to stick to schedules is a direct result of being able to spot a bad customer and steering clear of dodgy ones (ones who want the cheapest job done, or have half finished work done or want to bargain on price or want you to bump other customers along to get their job done quicker or want to supply all their own materials to save a few quid). Being able to spot these people is a business skill. Instead of people moaning about what a rough deal their customers give them by not paying them or messing up their schedules perhaps they might want to look at what makes their customers think that they can get away with that. Believe me my customers know not to mess me around. All I think is that there are too many people who moan about how badly the world treats them and how they are always the victim. Dont forget noone owes anybody a living and if people arent building up a network of regular customers and are continually failing to get paid or getting work cancelled the inevitable conclusion is that either they are incredibly unlucky or they are doing something wrong.

 

Not entirely sure what your point is. Are you trying to be helpful or just showing how wonderful you are.

 

"Business is a tough world"
"able to spot a bad customer"
"Being able to spot these people is a business skill"
"what makes their customers think that they can get away with that."
"Believe me my customers know not to mess me around"
"incredibly unlucky"
I'm sorry but if you are telling me you have never been done off a customer through no fault of your own i think it is you who has been incredibly lucky!
I have lost coun't of the tricks people have tried to pull over the many years i have been in business and although i think i'm a fairly good judge of character there are times when you just get mugged, plain and simple.
Your customers know not to mess you around, what does that mean? you threaten them? what kind of business is that?
Up to you how you run your business but most of us want some sort of good will payment so we don't loose wages at short notice.
I get at least 2 or 3 jobs every week (usually the night before) when customers try to move a job, mostly because some other trade is late finishing there job or they simply can't get the day off work.
It's niether here nor there if it's a bog to fit in lino but when it's a full house of carpets a 2 day job for men it gets a bit costly.

 

just trying to point out why the same people get trouble again and again

 

just trying to point out why the same people get
trouble again and again

Who mentioned getting into trouble again and again?

 

I have been in business for only three years, i got stiffed once.

Then said that aint happening again, so introduced the 50% deposit for booking.

No serious customer queries this system, i do have a reputation in my business and the customer is willing to pay.

The ones that dont are the dodgy ones my system weedles out.

And Audi is right, there is always someone trying to pull a fast one, if you dont ever come across this type of customer i say you are very lucky.

And i, too, would love to know what you mean by the quote,"they know not to mess me about"??

*

[Edited by: admin6]

 

btw mfi want paying 21 days before the job, and in full!
I find my customers are happy to pay 30% up front and some are quite surprised that i don't want the balance untill i am finished and they are happy with the job.

 

I sub through agencies through the week and work on a private scale part time. Only been in the trade a couple of years since being qualified so I am building myself up gradualy. Therefor I cant afford to take a gamble on wether or not I am going to get paid even though I wouldnt walk off a job until the customer is completely happy. With customers you have built up trust with over a long period of time is fine, but like Audi, I would charge around 30% upfront before taking on a job.
Small businesses that have recently started up simply dont have the spare cash in a float to play with and cannot afford to take the risk of losing money. That doesnt mean that we are bad tradesmen or businessmen, it just means that we are all at different levels of turnover and it takes time and built up trust before you can start laying down large sums of money before taking on work. Trust should be a two way thing between the contractor and client.

 

There are two seperate discussions here. 1. Should you take deposits for materials. As I have said before yes you should take deposits for materials if you dont have the funds however all small businesses should be able to run to a grand or so for materials with going broke. If you cant run to a grand at least then unless you are in the very early days you need to look at why you arent bringing the money in and adjust your business structure. 2. Should you take deposits for labour only. In my opinion you shouldnt as if you are continously getting shaft3d by customers once again you need to look at why this is happening to you. I dont have a situation with customers changing dates or not wanting work they have agreed to so I have no need to worry about this, however if you arent getting paid off customers or when you rock up to do the work they have already had it done you need to look at why this is happening to you, perhaps you arent working off written quotes or arent staying in contact with your customers or perhaps your work isnt up to scratch and word has got about.

As for the issue about my customers knowing not to mess me about, of course I am not threatening them, its just they know that I work around 3 months ahead so they will probably have to wait another 3 months if the renege on the date. At the end of the day people run their businesses in different ways and only the leanest businesses survive.

 

Sorry that should be "without going broke

 

"however all small businesses should be able to run to a grand or so for materials with going broke."
The problem there is that you are gauging this by your business, another guy could say a small bussiness should be able to stand 10 grands worth of materials and another may struggle with a couple of hundred quid.
It is relative to each persons circumstances.
How many people do yo employ? I have staff, not loads but a few and i can't have a situation where i am paying there wages for standing around because something has went wrong on the customers side to prevent me from carrying out the work they have booked me to do on the day they have booked me for.
Sometimes i would rather be stuck with materials than loose time, i can never get the time back but at least the goods still have some value.
If you ever get to the point where you employ staff see how you feel on the days you are paying them to tidy their tool box or scratch their rse.
As you say you it's tough to survive so you need to make sure you are not left out of pocket because someone else has done something wrong.

 

I employ nobody and never will. Too many people and I am not saying this about you audi try to become too big and get off the tools. I have no intention of ever coming off the tools and find that I make enough for me by being that way. As for saying that I am judging other people by my business i am not all I am saying is that a solvent business established for a reasonable amount of time surely should be able to run to stump up for a grands worth of materials without having to go to customer for a sub.

 

I admit i am off the tools most of the time and hate it but unfortunately thats the way the business has evolved.
My time has more value doing other things than my proper job.
It is a treat for me to do a "proper" days work but there aint much i can do about that.
Maybe you are wiser than me to do enough to give you the type of life you want without having to expand and get bogged down.
Maybe i'm wrong to take the route i have taken but your figure of a grand is still based on what you think is a reasonable ammout.
I turned a job down a good few years ago because it would have stood me the best part of twenty grand, it seemed too good to be true.
The fact was at the time if it had went ti ts up i would have been finished so i passed.
The guy who got the job had lots and lots of cash behind him and didn't think 20k was a big investment.
It's all relative.
Fair enough saying a solvent established business, but we all have to start somewhere and being hard up doesn't mean you ain't good at your job.

 

> "however all small businesses should be able to run
to a grand or so for materials with going broke."
The problem there is that you are gauging this by
your business, another guy could say a small
bussiness should be able to stand 10 grands worth of
materials and another may struggle with a couple of
hundred quid.
It is relative to each persons circumstances.

But any small business will have (or SHOULD have) trade accounts. Materials bought have a minimum of 30 days before payment is due, buy at the beginning of a month and that extends to nearly 60 days free credit. Often the job is completed and paid for before the merchants bills arrive.

 

"But any small business will have (or SHOULD have) trade accounts. Materials bought have a minimum of 30 days before payment is due, buy at the beginning of a month and that extends to nearly 60 days free credit. Often the job is completed and paid for before the merchants bills arrive. "
ain't arguing with that.
I am saying that to put an ammount on how much a small business should be able to stand is relative.
Infact what you consider to be a small bussiness is relative.
What is a fortune to one person maybe peanuts to another!
Also your credit limit with suppliers will be different to the next guy.

 

but surely part of the thing about being in business is acting in a professional manner and in my opinion part of being professional is being able to facilitate a speedy and efficient job by buying what you need for the job without going to the customer for a sub. and in my opinion you should be able to go and pick up a grands worth of materials either on account or out of your pocket. Sure different people different levels but if you are struggling so much that you havent got a grand in your business account you need to look at why, this isnt directed at you audi. I am fully aware you run a proper business.

 

"in my opinion you should be able to go and pick up a grands worth of materials"
yep that's what i am saying, it is your oppinion.
You could go to price a job tommorrow and the customer may think that as you are in business you should be able to stand 20 grands worth of materials.
He could be of the oppinion that 20 grand is nothing, it is relative to how much money you have.
You could be in a position where you invest lots of money in your business and be so busy you have maxed out all of your accounts with suppliers.
My main reason for taking deposits is to safeguard the time i have set aside to do the job.
If a customer cancels or wants to put off a job esp at short notice you basically don't make any money, ok if it's just you and you get the work back somewhere else but if you have staff they still need to be paid.
In most trades you have relatively few customers but in some trades you have lots so more potential for problems and money lost.
If you fit kitchens you may do 50 or 60 in a year, if you get 2 problem customers i dare say you will cope.
I know a guy for example who fits vertical blinds, he has 6 guys working doing 200 jobs a week, so he will get almost 500 problem customers a yearat the same rate, thats a lot of money if you have to loose it, it could be one of your staffs wages.
It really gets me when a customer rings up on the morning of the job with some far fetched excuse as to why they need to put off their job till next week.
I say how would you like it if you went to work and your boss said "the dog's ate my home work" your not getting paid today?

 

The whole point of this thread has got lost somehow....it says "Deposits on installation only" which is basically asking for your wages before you've even got your tools out. The answer to that is a big NO. No one in this world gets paid in advance, usually a week in hand and often monthly paid. If you are that poor you need to ask for your WAGES up front you are either:

a: not very good at your job
b: targetting the wrong sort of customer or
c: you need to set yourself a decent day rate by which you can afford to live and have a few days unplanned holiday every now and again.

Now, would I go and order a kitchen worth 4 or 5K without seeing a deposit? Of course not, but that wasn't the point of this thread, although I have to say it's turned into a great discussion!!

 

as I,ve said I wouldnt have a deposit for less than a grand, up to 3k if the customer offered it and I would insist on one over 3k. Thats for materials. I certainly wouldnt take a deposit on labour only as I dont think its needed. Nothing wrong with taking deposits but insisting on them for small jobs is petty if you ask me.