devil of screw

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by arsenalboy, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. Nicky Tesla

    Nicky Tesla New Member

    back to the subject.....dont use a hacksaw to cut the screw, use a pair of pliers,

    also in some old houses (which this is) iv seen metal back boxes with plastic screw retainers.
     
  2. Tazmaniandevil

    Tazmaniandevil New Member

    Hey guys, I'm new here - so be gentle with me.
    I'm a time served spark, but no longer work in the industry.
    I think the switch indoors may be there as an over-ride to the PIR. The PIR will still trigger the light, but if the switch is goosed, it won't over-ride the PIR to make the light 'always on'
     
  3. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Some suggestions here seem to suggest that the pir has a permanent connection, OTHER than the switch, which if true, would not(in my opinion-ok) be good wiring practice.

    I may be wrong(disclaimer)


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Nah, sod it. That's what I think.


    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  4. fooman

    fooman New Member

    Some suggestions here seem to suggest that the pir
    has a permanent connection, OTHER than the switch,
    which if true, would not(in my opinion-ok) be
    good wiring practice.

    I may be wrong(disclaimer)


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Nah, sod it. That's what I think.


    Mr. HandyAndy - really


    whats wrong with having a switch setup like that then HandyAndy ?
     
  5. BusterGonad

    BusterGonad New Member

    Hey guys, I'm new here - so be gentle with me.
    I'm a time served spark, but no longer work in the
    industry.
    I think the switch indoors may be there as an
    over-ride to the PIR. The PIR will still trigger the
    light, but if the switch is goosed, it won't
    over-ride the PIR to make the light 'always on'

    A good first reply.
     
  6. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Some suggestions here seem to suggest that the pir
    has a permanent connection, OTHER than the switch,
    which if true, would not(in my opinion-ok)
    be
    good wiring practice.

    I may be wrong(disclaimer)


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Nah, sod it. That's what I think.


    Mr. HandyAndy - really


    whats wrong with having a switch setup like that then
    HandyAndy ?




    In the time honoured way, I will answer your question with another(everyone else seems to want to do it that way).


    So you think it is a clever idea to have a permanent live outside with no(apparent) local isolation switch ?



    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  7. fooman

    fooman New Member

    off the lighting circuit i cannot see a problem no
     
  8. arsenalboy

    arsenalboy Member

    Sorry that all you guys are arguing over my light!!
    I can clarify a few points for some of you. The light is a security light and triggered by PIR therefore it has to have live feed all the time.
    The internal switch is indeed an override to either a) have the light on all the time (if triggered by PIR it goes off after approx 5 mins) or b) to turn it on if you need to pop outside for a few minutes and don't want to jump up and down to make it turn on!!
    So me thinks if it don't work by switch but does by movement it has to be the switch.
     
  9. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds New Member

    Despite it possibly being a PIR override?

    Despite the owner and operator of the switch stating that it used to work and now doesn't?

    What is he, Handshandy, in your strange dreamworld, where everyone is wrong except you? Is he a fool or a liar?

    Or could it be that you are wrong again?

    But I forgot - that can't be, can it, as the all-knowing Handshandy has decreed that the switch is working.
    Maybe you'd prefer an answer from the sort of person who would ignore all the evidence presented, make some groundless guess about how the circuit must be wired and what the switch must be supposed to do, and then tell the OP that he was mistaken and his switch did work?

    You obviously think that's the sort of person the OP was hoping would help him.
     
  10. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds New Member

     
  11. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds New Member

     
  12. Mr. Handyandy

    Mr. Handyandy Screwfix Select

    Ha ha ha ha ha bas.


    I will now give you just one example of an exterior pir activated security light and it's POSSIBLE wiring.


    A live is taken to a switch. When switched this live goes to the pir light and returns via a neutral which is connected to a neutral in the backbox of the switch.

    This completes the circuit and the pir has power.

    The pir will activate with movement, and turn the light on.

    So that's fine.

    To switch the light on(overriding the pir sensor) the switch is switched on, switched off, and switched on again within a certain time period(say 20secs).

    This make the light on permanently, until switched off again.

    Normal (pir) use is returned once the switch is turned on once more.





    Now, in the absence of the full details of how the pir is wired and switched, can you tell me why this would NOT be as good a guess as anyone else's ???





    Mr. HandyAndy - really
     
  13. Removed 4

    Removed 4 New Member

    Andy: To override a cheap (unstable) pir, it's only necessary to confuse the circuitry by momentarily switching off -on.

    To override a 'decent' device, an extra switch is used. And you're quite correct in assuming so.

    The usual set-up (When not supplying with a DP switch), is to use a 2-gang switch: Live feed to first (master) switch and its S/L is linked to the common of the adjacent switch, then L1 & L2 of that switch become 'Manual' & 'Auto'.

    That way, there can be no permanent live lurking in the pir, to catch some poor unsuspecting 'maintenance man'.

    Not dissimilar to the requirement for a timer fan - functional switching and switching off for maintenance etc.

    Marj x
     
  14. Maybe someone nailed a squeaky floorboard down through the carpet, breaking the switchline, so the switch now does not operate the light
     
  15. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds New Member

    You didn't present the above guesswork as a theory which if true might mean that the fault lay somewhere else, you said "Strikes me as if the pir is working(for movement) then the switch is working".
     
  16. mr bojangles

    mr bojangles Member

    BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
     
  17. MOONSHINE

    MOONSHINE New Member

    Is this one of those pir’s where you hit the switch twice & the light comes on permanently? & if you hit it 3 times the light flashes? & does it have a separate chime alert box that plugs in to the mains?
     
  18. Ant1981

    Ant1981 New Member

    You keep trying bas. you will fail. You will make
    yourself look small(smaller than you have already
    made yourself look by trying to score points -you are
    losing).

    Read what others say about your, fooman's and Ant's
    childishness.


    Childishness? Pandy, it is YOU who squeals like a child, it is YOU who cries to forum admin, like a child.
     
  19. arsenalboy

    arsenalboy Member

    For further clarity
    1. It is a quality PIR security light. You do not need to override it by confusing circuit, as somebody stated, by switching on and off and on again. The manual override works like a normal light i., switch it on and it comes on and switch it off and it goes off.
    2. Nice theory that somebody has put a nail through squeaky floorboard and taken out a wire, but this is all new wiring arriving in a new dry lined wall, integrity of wiring is ok.
    3. Despite certain individuals trying to tell me otherwise (no names to protect the guilty!!), it has to be the switch. The light works by PIR and it used to work by the switch but now it doesn't work by the switch.
     
  20. X

    X New Member

    it has to be the switch. The light works by PIR and it used to work by the switch but now it doesn't work by the switch.

    Not 100% true..

    1.Supply
    2.Switch
    3.Cable
    4.Security light

    Are all things that can be faulty

    Check for voltage at 2 in and out.. if in and not out then 2 is faulty.
    Check for switched voltage at 4.. if present then 4 is faulty
    If no voltage at 2 then 1 is faulty
    If voltage at 2 and not at 4 then 3 is faulty
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice