Diagonal Cable Runs

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Tony Goddard, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Question for some of the longer established sparks (I was new to the trade c2000) - working in a 1991 property on a kitchen fit - wiring original, very neat, looks a professional job, but in the kitchen there are lots of diagonal chases taking cables from spurs to appliances. You do see this a lot on older properties, i've only ever known it to be a no no, but was there a time when it was permitted or not specifically forbidden?
     
  2. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Hi Tony

    I started in 1973 and it was always up/down left/right. Don't ever recall diagonal being acceptable as general practice.
     
  3. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Interesting, maybe it was just a thing on some newbuilds back in the day, this one was a Persimmon effort - they don't have a good rep now, maybe it was true then too - Rest of the install is tidy though, happily the original spark used 2 inch wide capping direct on the blocks everywhere so all the verticals we needed to re-use threaded very easily!
     
  4. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    It was quite common to take a diagnal route from a spur in a kitchen to an appliance, was never a good practice and I have repaired many of these cables in the past from kitchen refurbs. I think it came from the days when you got the 6 week wonders where they did 6 weeks training to become a tradesman and what you are seeing is more likely to be the remains of this era. Real tradesman obviously never did this but the 6 week wonders just tought the shortest route was the norm.
     
  5. SIRJOHN19

    SIRJOHN19 Active Member

    Back in the 80s a local firm built a whole small estate of maisonettes. Every one built the same and every one had a diagonal cable in kitchen from cooker switch to cooker. At that time it was cool to have spice racks. Yes you guessed, I must have repaired 20-30 before word got around that trying out your new drill on fixing things in kitchen was not a good idea.
     
  6. CGN

    CGN Screwfix Select

    I think the only cable I’ve ever drilled into was a diagonal spur.
     
  7. Roys

    Roys Screwfix Select

    I did it once as a 1st apprentice in 1981 and left to my own devices for an hour, I raggelled out a diagonal cable run and after I was hit about the head I never did it again. In my defence I knew no better at that precise moment in time.
     
  8. sparko69

    sparko69 Screwfix Select

    As long as the cable is installed properly you can ignore wiring zones and run cables diagonal if you want to
     
    Howard Hindle likes this.
  9. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Yes in steel solidd drawn conduit like a lot of council houses did it this way, typicaly on cooker circuits.
     
  10. sparko69

    sparko69 Screwfix Select

    I'm not sure that metal conduit would have been used by the 6 week wonders you mentioned . Plenty of real tradesmen run cables diagonally when it is appropriate and without using metal conduit.
     
  11. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    The OP is talking about diagonal cables sitting just beneath the plaster which was typical of the 6 week wonders and the numpty's who just ignore safe zones. Not about where or if it s appropriate. It is NEVER appropriate in an average house to ignore safe zones for the reasons that is a bit obvious. Hitting unexpected cables run on a diagonal always ruins the day.
     
  12. sparko69

    sparko69 Screwfix Select

    No you have assumed the o.p referred to cables sitting just below the plaster but the o.p never mentioned the depth.
    And regarding cable wiring zones it will always be about where and if its appropriate.
    And for your information there are many times in a house where it may be appropriate to ignore wiring zones. How long have you been an electrician because you don't seem very experienced by stating ridiculous things such as 'it's never appropriate in an average house' and also by incorrectly assuming that 'only numpties ignore wiring zones ".
     
  13. sparko69

    sparko69 Screwfix Select

    And the o.p asked if there was a time when diagonal cable runs were permitted...the answer to that is ,yes diagonal cables are permitted.
     
  14. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    aprox 40 years mate, you are obviously one of these know it all types who is purely argumentitive and likes to think you know something that nobody else knows. The OP has posted a simple and very common error that can be found in a lot of houses from this era, simple as that nothing sinister or assumed other than what we see as electricians from sloppy work, make of it what you will. Don't waste any more time insulting me with your comments and to be honest I have little time for idiots.
     
  15. sparko69

    sparko69 Screwfix Select

    You incorrectly assumed a few things and I have corrected you,don't take it so personal I was only helping you because you were giving incorrect advice. You then thought it would be a good idea to take a belligerent tone in your reply to me and now you are insulting people. I think you need a holiday? :)
     
  16. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    No incorrect advice was given, you do not need to correct me, I and other sparks understand what the OP was referring to, if you don't then that is not my problem but yours. good day.
     
  17. sparko69

    sparko69 Screwfix Select

    This is incorrect advice.
    'It is NEVER appropriate in an average house to ignore safe zones'
    This is also incorrect advice
    'The OP is talking about diagonal cables sitting just beneath the plaster '
    The o.p never mentioned the depth of the cable.
    It is you who doesn't understand 1. The o.p's question, and 2. You don't understand the wiring regulations.
    I will correct your errors for the benefit of others who may be tempted to assume you know what you are on about when a real electrician would know that you are wrong.
    Have a good day
     
  18. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Blah blah blah. No one is listening
     
  19. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    The safe zones has resulted in being less careful, I managed to hit a horizontal cable which went around 4 corners to a two way switch that I never considered anyone would fit.

    But before 2004 kitchen fitters moved and fitted sockets, it was only after Part P that kitchens were classed as a special location, still are here in Wales, and it was common for kitchen fitters to take easiest route.

    I do remember the 12 week government retraining courses I want on one to be a heavy plant fitter, although stayed as an electrician in the end. You were considered semi-skilled when completed not skilled, and you were to be placed with a company who gave you the journey-man post course training for 2 years after before being considered as skilled. Same as the 1940's apprenticeship, where after 5 years you did 2 years journey-man with 4 different firms to round off your training.

    However as an industrial electrician most of my time, we used tray, conduit and trunking so were not taught safe routes, until 2004 I could flit between domestic, commercial, and industrial with no restrictions, and did, I hated domestic and only did it as last resort, we called them house bashers, and for good reason, most other diversions did not require us to make out own chases etc.

    Today with Smart devices the domestic section has become more skilled, but back in the 90's hardest domestic electrical job was the Y plan central heating. Yes I know different today, but even today rare to find plans for the cable runs in a home. On petrol-chemical plants if I altered some thing without modifying plans I would be in a lot of trouble.

    My son was employed in around 2000 as a semi-skilled wiring houses, the electrician came and inspected if he go round to it. And that only 20 years ago, he did study and get C&G2381 (16th Edition) and back then I think the instructions in the Guide were included in the exam? But when we took the C&G2382 (17th Edition) the Guide had not been updated, so was not included in the exam, and safe routes are shown in the Guide not the BS 7671.

    In fact even the Guide back in the 80's there was a Union published version and an IEE published version, when the BS 7671 first came out collages were setting there own exams, I know many were caught out taking the upgrade as they were excluded from doing upgrade and had to do full exam as their original was set by the collage.

    Around 1993 I returned to UK, all I heard was 16th Edition says this or that, when I left UK around 1980 no one seemed to worry about what the wiring regulations said, there was a thing about earthing, even as I remember metal window frames at one point, and 1966 we had to earth lights, but the copy of wiring regulations was normally in foreman's office, and asking to look at it resulted in questions of to why, it just looked nice on the shelf. In the main it was the Union guide which we used, not the actual regulations.
     
  20. sparko69

    sparko69 Screwfix Select

    No one is listening because it is not audio :)
     

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