Dimmable bulbs and switches - recommendations needed

[JanF]

Hi all,
I asked on this forums recently about problems with my (LED) lights which are flickering. So far I was unable to figure out what the problem might be, so I thought I'd consider replacing the bulbs as well as the switches - and wanted to ask for your recommendations on LED bulbs (E14) and switches.

Requirements:
The setup needs to be dimmable (either dimmer switches and dimmable bulbs or smart bulbs)
I'd like filament bulbs - they look nice and some of the bulbs I have are exposed / visible
Preferably smart switches and glass switches (I think they're not so common so am happy to hear your thoughts if you believe they're not very good)
The switches need to require no neutral wire as my building doesn't have it apparently
The set up should not be terribly expensive as I need around 31 bulbs and 4 switches (one of them 3 gang, the others 1 gang)

Am keen to read your thoughts and recommendations on what you think is good and what you'd recommend I avoid (brands / manufacturers etc).

Thanks

 

[MGW]

When the compact fluorescent lamp (CFL) came out, I removed all my dimming switches, places like Turkey where it gets hot, moved to CFL before us, and their method was to split lights 1/3 and 2/3 onto two switches, giving three levels of light without the need for dimming switches.

As the LED came in, we have the ability to dim them again, but for a dimming switch with no neutral to work, some power has to go through the bulb when off, in fact most on/off smart switches also have some power through the bulb, the TP-Link (Tapo) is the odd one out, it uses a pair of AAA cells, but most need to pass current through the bulbs, so the bulbs need to be 5 watt or more.

What seemed odd to me, was with 5 x G9 bulbs so total over 5 watt, the Energenie smart switch would flicker, and also not turn off fully, the use of a load capacitor did cure the switching off bit, but the shimmer would stop if on quartz bulb was fitted, but idea was not to use quartz, after some hunting my wife got some bulbs from the internet, far larger to original, so covers will not fit, and far brighter, technically illegal as no lumen or wattage marked on them, but they work. However, not dimmable.

The living room was very dark, think designed to have a 150 watt bulb, can't get equivalent as LED, so way around the problem is a chandelier which takes 8 bulbs, however, to have 8 smart bulbs gets a bit expensive, so used a Tapo smart on/off switch. Room in corner still dark, so used cabinet lights to supplement the ceiling lights, these can be dimmed and are colour changing, flat out nearly 60 watt, hardly ever use at maximum output. We also have uplights, and reading lights, the problem with so many independent lights is there are so many to turn off when leaving the room, however we use Google Nest Mini's, so voice commend "Hey google turn off living room lights" turns them all off.

As said, Tapo is the odd one out, as it uses batteries, but the rest, smart switches default off, and smart bulbs default on, so after a power cut, have to wait for Google to boot up, then "Hey google turn off all lights" if I am home. So most I have around 4 am a command turn-off, so if away when there is a power outage they will switch off.

I use a smart colour changing dimming bulb outside, set it green at Halloween and colour changing at Christmas, but wife finds on full harder to see to reverse down drive, so it is set dim most of the time, there was about 50p difference colour changing to just dimming, so got colour changing. Using the phone app to turn on lights when we get home is better than PIR controlled, but we still have one PIR controlled, so that uses a Tapo light switch, as most others would not work with a PIR.

Down in the flat, we realise visitors may not like google, so we have one of these, ⁣but the remote keeps going missing. Stairs we want good light most of the time, but dim at night going to loo, so this chandelier has 5 bulbs, and a smart relay, so can select 1, 4, or 5 bulbs, the centre bulb is a smart colour changing so we can dim the centre bulb even more, or set it to a colour.

I hope this gives you some ideas?

 

[JanF]

Thank you, that's some very good points / ideas there. Can I just ask a couple of follow up questions please:

• When you say 5 watt or more - does that mean that the 4.5 watt I have (though multiple of them connected to a single light / switch, so the total consumption of each of the lights is between 25-45W) are not suitable for this use (with a dimmer switch with no neutral wire)?
• If the 4.5W are no good for dimming, do I need to buy 5W or above individual bulbs? If so, what brand would you recommend? Are Philips good, for example?
• As my set up (multiple 4.5W LED bulbs, smart switch with no neutral wire) is flickering, would getting and installing a capacitor help resolve the problem? If so, what parameters (or manufacturer) of capacitor should I look for? I have done some reading today and it would seem that installing a capacitor between a switch and a light can help - but I'm not sure if I understood that correctly

As you say, the smart lights are pretty expensive (in my case I need 31 of them), so would like to try cheaper options first - ideally keeping my current switches and maybe getting 'dumb' LED bulbs, but higher wattage (and perhaps also better capacitor - if that makes a difference to the flickering)?

 

[Mr Rusty]

Another option is to use modules that use a N and put them in the ceiling rose, light fitting or ceiling https://www.samotech.co.uk/products/zigbee-dimmer-sm309-s/ These can be controlled by a momentary hard wired switch, but also integrate with e.g. Philips Hue allowing use of stick-up switches, alexa, phone app etc. I have two of these (not dimming versions) in LED battens and they work flawlessly.

 

[JanF]

Another option is to use modules that use a N and put them in the ceiling rose, light fitting or ceiling https://www.samotech.co.uk/products/zigbee-dimmer-sm309-s/ These can be controlled by a momentary hard wired switch, but also integrate with e.g. Philips Hue allowing use of stick-up switches, alexa, phone app etc. I have two of these (not dimming versions) in LED battens and they work flawlessly.

Thank you for the suggestion. Sorry, a very stupid question (actually more than one), but what is the 'N'? I don't have a neutral wire in my flat if that's what you're referring to. The device you linked - sorry I'm probably not technical enough to understand that - what is its purpose?

 

[MGW]

The device shown is similar to what I used in the 5 lamp unit. Except mine was on/off only. I think the problem with under 5 watt is down to built in leak resistors. The problem is, as the user, we have no idea what is inside the bulb. I have out of interest opened up bulbs, the second picture shows a capacitor and this is what stops the flicker, the first we can see the 6 LEDs the rectifier and a few resistors, but also a chip which I have no idea what is inside it, likely a mini switch mode regulator, which is designed to regulate the current, so any dimmer switches actions will be corrected by the chip, so it will not dim. Others use a simple capacitor to limit the current and so will dim, but as the user we have no idea what is inside the bulb.

If you look at these two bulbs, the larger one worked A1 with my wife's lights, but the smaller one would not fully switch off, and had a shimmer, if you consider the capacitor in the large one is nearly as big as the small bulb, it is clear why the small bulb flickers, as not enough room to fit a large enough capacitor. Both the bulbs are G9. The insides show is from a 6 watt candle bulb.

The Energenie light switch has a chart, this should show what bulbs will work, but the G9 bulb listed the Philips Master, flickered as if no tomorrow, so likely the design has changed since tested.

Inside a smart bulb, it is far more complex, hence why more expensive, however since no external controls we know they will work, so the chandelier with 5 bulbs, and the smart bulb has come down in price £3 so today cheaper fitting smart bulbs to a smart relay, not used the bulb linked to, but have used Wiz bulbs, and the one I used had a fade out feature, which I find excellent, as it gives a warning it is switching off.

However, this is the problem with smart bulbs, each make seems to have different features, other bulbs have dusk and dawn, the same with switches, I have living room lights auto switch on at dusk, so if I fall asleep when watching TV, I will not wake up in a dark room. Not that with Google Nest Mini that is really a problem, as voice commands turn on lights.