Do I really need a PME?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by FrostIceGiant, Jun 21, 2021.

  1. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    i don't think anyone has an appetite for litigation but when your chain gets pulled by someone you've got to stand up for yourself. Make sure you know the name and address of the person you contracted with if they were a sole trader or the company address otherwise.

    given this is impacting a house sale you have to act fast and firm as if this will go to litigation even though you want to avoid that
  2. 234george234george

    234george234george New Member

    is the person you commissioned to do this work a competent person ?
    what qualifications do they have ?
    it seems to me anyone can do electrical work and duck out of their responsibility
    p3 to me is a joke.
    if this was gas you were talking about people would be crawling out of the woodwork to have a go.
  3. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    So. Did the electrician turn up?
  4. FrostIceGiant

    FrostIceGiant New Member

    No. He says he'll come tomorrow. I've tried to find another electrician, but they're fully booked.
  5. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    I’ll be surprised if he turns up. Really you need to record all correspondence as if you need to present court evidence. Hopefully you won’t get there but it doesn’t look good.
  6. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    Only an idiot would get involved in a court case over this.

    Presumably the original poster starts do the chain of events by saying the kitchen light had been changed, most people would have just kept their mouth shut.

    There’s an assumption that the installation was TT and has all the required RCD protection, if it didn’t then an earth upgrade to PME may be a reasonable recommendation.
  7. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    I disagree, there is a property sale at stake here and stamp duty deadlines. The consequence of this issue could be thousands of pounds loss. Irrespective of what started the chain, someone has been paid for a certificate that they have failed to produce
  8. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    The lesson sadly to be learned is that it's the buyers who need to order any surveys and inspections they feel are needed and satisfy themselves as to what is needed and they should all be completed before exchange of contracts.

    I doubt you could sue this guy, I doubt any written contract exists that would stand up in court, he could just issue an unsatisfactory and he' still done the job, but that doesn't help the OP.

    I hope this electrician, knowing he is causing the poor OP incredible stress at a stressful time made worse by a global pandemic, cuts him some slack and gets the job finished.
  9. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    In fairness we are talking here about a potentially over cautious electrician, not a cowboy, no one is inferring he is doing anything unsafe - by not turning up when he has agreed to he can be considered unprofessional - but not unsafe.
  10. FrostIceGiant

    FrostIceGiant New Member

    He’s here. He’s connected the PME. He says the PME has improved our earth by 0.01 oam (dunno what that is or how it’s spelled) - and laughed “the PME has done nothing, but there you go, you have to have it by law”... he’s in his van writing the certificate now.

    I asked if he read this post... he said he did, and you’re all wrong... that a PME is needed because if someone were to install plastic pipes in future, it’s his name on the certificate and he will be liable?

    I just don’t care anymore - I want the certificate and for him to ****** off.
  11. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    I bet you’ll be glad to see the back of him.

    As he knows “the law” you might like him to quote the reference in the act of Parliament or relevant statutory instrument issued by Parliament because I can tell you one thing for certain. No other body creates laws in this country!
    FrostIceGiant likes this.
  12. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Ohm, measurement of electrical resistance, 0.01 isn't much - to be honest I'm surprised if a TT to PME conversion only causes a 0.01 ohm shift, would expect more. Its usually a dramatic shift for example from 73 Ohms to 0.35 (not that there is anything wrong with the 73)

    No law that states any such thing, and absolutely no requirement for PME. I had tried to cut him some slack by suggesting he is over cautious, but stating incorrect facts like that shows he is either:

    Incompetent with poor understanding of the regs and shouldn't be doing inspection and test


    Misleading customers by spouting tosh

    Neither gives a good impression

    At the very least report him to his competent person scheme (assuming he is in one).
    FrostIceGiant likes this.
  13. FrostIceGiant

    FrostIceGiant New Member

    Yep, Parliament is sovereign and has been for about 900 years.
  14. FrostIceGiant

    FrostIceGiant New Member

    The bit of paper he's given us says we have a "TN-C-S" Earth (I don't know what that means) - does that shed any light on this?

    Or could it have been a TT and is now a TN-C-S due to the PME? (these are all just acronyms to me)
  15. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    PME= Protective Multiple Earth (term generally used by electricity suppliers)
    TN-C-S = (if i remember rightly) Terra (earth) Neutral Combined Service (or System)

    Same thing, different name
    FrostIceGiant likes this.
  16. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Think TN-C-S is where the earth to the installation is C(ombined as in PME to the. Installation and then Separate within the installation. But could be wrong:)

    for info

    Attached Files:

  17. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Sounds right, its been a long time since college!!
  18. spinlondon

    spinlondon Screwfix Select

    Given the choice between TT and PME, I would opt for PME.
  19. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    I'm thinking it wasn't TT to start with and he was getting really poor readings, and asked for a pme installed to only improve it by 0.01 is baffling, he should of just fitted a earth rod and done his certificate

Share This Page