Dodgy Hep2o fittings!

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Ricicle, Mar 23, 2007.

  1. Ricicle

    Ricicle New Member

    Had a nightmare recently, when a 22mm elbow came apart,(pipe blew out of fitting), at 4am in a customers house.!
    They didnt notice till about 7am, by which time the whole ground floor was under a couple of inches of water.

    I've been using hep, with their own plastic pipe, for several years now, and never had a problem. The above occured about a month after it was originally installed, and I sent the dodgy fitting back to Hepworth, for them to test.

    Havn't heard anything from Hepworth, (2 weeks now!), and the customer is wanting to claim on my PLI, for new carpets, skirtings, doors, hotel bills etc....

    Have any of you guys ever had a Hep fitting fail on you, if so, what response did you get??

  2. boskoman1

    boskoman1 New Member

    I have never come across a fitting like this fail.

    If it has been installed correctly then it should not fail.

    I have had an insert that was plastic moulded at one end - so acting like a plug. i had to pull out a whole kitchen

    Hep20 will never claim it is a fault of theres. you should have had independant inspection before sending it off.

    good luck
  3. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    Sorry to hear you are living out a plumbers nightmare.
    Hep problems I have come across:

    cutting with a hacksaw or other unsuitable tool, missing pipe insert, hep pipe is easily kinked or cut, re-using fittings is not good, broken steel teeth ring, pipe not pushed fully home.

    The main reason I have found for Hep joints failing is them being reused and the cap nut threads getting damaged. I have never had one go as you described butI do prefer Speedfit although that can have problems too.
    The only joints I have seen fail catastrophically were soldered joints which came apart ( Not mine of course!) - usually where someone has applied a twisting action somewhere along the pipe and strained the joint.

    Good luck in sorting this out.
  4. boskoman1

    boskoman1 New Member

    Yeah, it's an unlucky situation.

    How do you prove who is in the wrong.

    Captain Leaky....have you ever claimed against the manufacturer?
  5. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    No I have never been able to prove to my satisfaction - let alone the manufacturer that the fittings were faulty. I agree though that you would want an independent assesment. As I have said I find Hep to be iffy when re-used and avoid that now.
  6. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    Was it hot or cold? Hep quote max temp of 60 degrees c but hot water can get hotter than that in practice.
  7. boskoman1

    boskoman1 New Member

    They cost next to nothing, so why risk re-using a fitting.

    I do U/F heating, and the manufacturers will only certify there own pipe and fittings. They reckon others could be slightly out by 1/1000 of a mm. Enough to let it slip (Or possibly a sales strategy)

    These are tested to 18 Bar for 1 hour.

    I think it should be compulsery to test everything to 14 Bar like in NZ and OZ before pipes are covered
  8. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    I agree, I am just commenting that I have come across re-used fittings that seem dodgy, so I agree with you, chuck em and use new.
  9. knot in wood

    knot in wood New Member

    i have been using it for 10years and never had a problem but i did once with speed fit 6years ago.

    bad news is that the customer has the right to claim off you regardless of the answer from hep. then its up to you to try and reclaim off hep. you were the supplier of the product to the cusomer not hep.
  10. 207.2

    207.2 New Member

    Captain leaky,
    Are you sure that hepp can't be used above 60 degrees? That would mean it could not be used on central heating.
  11. Clarts

    Clarts New Member

    I had a very similar problem about two years ago ( I had no P L insurance) doing a bathroom install plus full tiling, on the 2nd week after I had 1st fixed and all pipe work was under mains pressure at about 12 am a 15 mm hep socket blew off! I had fitted the insert and pushed it home, you could tell by the score marks that the grab ring had left on the Hep 20 pipe that it was all the way home! BUT there was only skid marks down the one side of the pipe! And As I remember the fitting that I had used had been rolling around in the back of my van for weeks so it was probably full of dust n ****, so I think that it got stuck between the grab ring and the pipe. I won't do that again.....
  12. boskoman1

    boskoman1 New Member

    Hep can hold temperatures of 90 degrees at about 8 bar.

    It will handle temperature 0f 120 degrees plus at lower pressures.
  13. Gasleak

    Gasleak New Member

    I've had a 15mm socket blow off the mains. I will never use Hep20 like this again!
  14. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    I think with hindsight the 60 degree spec was underfloor heating - sorry, you are right 90 degrees is normal max.
  15. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

    as Clarts has said I think Hep fittings are more susceptible than most to bits of debris, being reused and abuse - of course all fittings should be perfectly clean, pipe cut square etc etc but I do find Hep a bit more fussy - I think it is because of the whole assembly of cap, rings, seal teeth etc has to be perfect for them to work properly.
  16. dp

    dp Guest

    If I were the end user, I would certainly be wary of 120 degree tempered water passing through Hepworth pipe.

    Am aware of an instance where the boiler primary stat had failed resulting in plastic pipe splitting. I could be wrong, but at 120 or thereabout, plastic pipe is soft like chewing gum on a hot pavement and unzips/ split under pressure.

    I would only use plastic where copper runs are difficult. Copper produces better runs, looks better, stays in shape where it is fixed, pulled bends are tidy and gives a proffessional finish. But then, it is my choice.
  17. Ricicle

    Ricicle New Member

    Thanks for the comments guys.
    It was cold water pipe, about 100mm above the stopcock, with the tee going off to the first floor, the rest to the kitchen.
    customers have since advised that they had used the new dishwasher for the firstime, the evening before the pipe blew. Don't know if this has any influence, (wouldn't have thought so!?)

    Have claim going through PLI now, but customers getting nasty about extent of re-instatement works. (want new doors, skirtings, door frames, damp tests on stud partitions, for new shoes that got a bit damp in the hallway!! There even trying to claim hotel bills, even though they didn't move out!!)

    Think I might emigrate to the moon or something till this lot is sorted out!!

  18. ezecool

    ezecool New Member

    Certainly I have seen pushfit fittings that move when the pressure is taken off slightly. If I must use pushfit I only use speedfit. I always pressurise the pipe and then tighten up the fitting. This prevents the pipe being pulled out even when the water pressure is taken off.

    I don't think that hep2o has this feature and you need a tool to demount it. Could your fitting have moved and then shot off the pipe?
  19. ezecool

    ezecool New Member

    Also, nobody has asked the question yet. What is the static water pressure at the property during the daytime and nightime?

    As another question. Was your 22mm pipework clipped in any way?
  20. myzeneye

    myzeneye New Member

    just a thought.... did you bleed any air out of the cold feed run going to the dishwasher ?? there is a possibility then when they piped in the washer and opened that leg the air shifting may have given your push fit fitting that pulse movement you get from them the first time the mains are reinstated, and this is when anything untoward may have gotten worse...
    just a thought

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