Doorbell to socket?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Sharpy88, Jan 2, 2021.

  1. Sharpy88

    Sharpy88 Member

    45CC6263-51D9-43E3-8D4A-7B04930C127E.jpeg Morning all, I have an old doorbell which is no longer attached to a button. The actual chime and transformer is still live and connected to a 6amp lighting breaker by junction box to the light in the same room (front door entrance) The supply enters the switch and then powers the chime.

    My question is, can I remove doorbell and replace the switch with a single socket?

    This socket that would be above a door frame I understand would not be able to draw more than 6amps due to being on the
    Lighting circuit but my idea was to run a small Neos camera for my front door as it’s the only way I can run power to it (plug only, not mains powered). Obviously I would label socket up as 6amp only and I have no intentions of moving home. I understand that sockets can be run off lighting circuits usually in lofts so long as they are labelled and not drawing a lot of power, ie cctv dvr boxes or computer server.

    I’m competent in electrical diy as far as diy is concerned but I obviously don’t understand or know the regs regarding what I want to do. It’s not in a special zone and is classed as an alteration to a circuit and not a new circuit which comes under the scope of diy I believe.

    Could someone clarify if I’m allowed to do this? If not I’ll just be removing both and capping wires into junction box.

    Ive attached a photo of the switch and doorbell

    Thanks
     
  2. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    Have you checked behind switch that there is a Neutral and Earth core present ?

    Various ways of wiring up a switch but many simply break/make the live conductor with the neutral going directly to the appliance

    Maybe the bell and new camera don’t require an Earth as double insulated but you can’t fit a socket if no Earth conductor present at switch

    Remove screws and pull faceplate forward and take a look / take photos - with power off at breaker 1st and switch confirmed as dead
     
  3. Sharpy88

    Sharpy88 Member

     

    Attached Files:

  4. Sharpy88

    Sharpy88 Member

    Live neutral and earth in both. Idea to remove chime and wire and would be left with live neutral and earth in switch
     
  5. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    Thats a messy backbox but yes, does appear to have all you need !

    Fit a socket then for camera, no problems there

    As you’ve said, anything high powered plugged in will simply blow / trip the fuse/mcb at consumer unit so it’s ‘safe’
     
  6. spirits are real 2016

    spirits are real 2016 Screwfix Select

    Sorry no you cant do it without changing the back box to 25mm deep or fit a surface socket dont force the socket on that back box it will over heat..
     
  7. Sharpy88

    Sharpy88 Member

    that was the intention but I’m not actually sure
    I can do it now as the cables in the switch are only 1mm. I know 1mm is rated for correct me if I’m wrong but 8amp? Can this still supply a single socket that is rated for 13amps? The camera itself only draws 1amp
     
  8. Sharpy88

    Sharpy88 Member

    So a feed of 1mm from lighting circuit on 6amp breaker directly to 13amp rated socket with 1mm wire but only drawing 1amp and labeled stating maximum draw? If not I’m just going to disconnect from light point and fill
     
  9. spirits are real 2016

    spirits are real 2016 Screwfix Select

    Yes you can do it, it doesn't matter the socket is rated 13amp as the protection is 6 amp and that will be covering the socket you cant draw more then 6 amps so it will be safe..
     
  10. Sharpy88

    Sharpy88 Member

    That’s great. I was just unsure of using the 1mm cable as I know in general sockets are 2.5.

    thank you
     
  11. spirits are real 2016

    spirits are real 2016 Screwfix Select

    As long as its marked up light use only it will be fine just give the cables a little tug to make sure there in tight..
     
    Sharpy88 likes this.
  12. Sharpy88

    Sharpy88 Member

    I’ll double up the ends to give them more surface area
     
  13. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    This switch/socket and cable is protected by a 6A breaker, that's the difference

    Sockets generally yes, wired in 2.5mm but will be protected by a 32A breaker (other methods/sizes also available) !

    You have some slack there in the cable so cut off the ends of copper where terminated and start with fresh copper. 1mm is so thin its likely to be partially 'eaten through' by screw terminals
     
  14. Sharpy88

    Sharpy88 Member

    Would adding bootlace ferrules to the end of the 1mm cable make it better connection with the wire being thin?
     
  15. Teki

    Teki Screwfix Select

    Yes if you have them otherwise just strip the wire longer and fold over.
     
  16. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Bootlace ferrules on solid conductor cables make no sense, in fact it can make the connections worse, especially if you aren’t experienced in the art of crimping. just double over the copper, the terminal screw will make a good connection.
     
    RolandK and Sharpy88 like this.
  17. Banallsheds

    Banallsheds Well-Known Member

    Bad practice to put a 13 amp socket on the lighting circuit whether it is allowed or not.
    The regs only allow 1.00 mm cable to be used for lights.

    You may not have any intentions of moving home, but one day you will die and your home will be sold.
     
  18. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Please state which reg only allows 1.0mm for lights. In our warehouses and factory we used 2.5mm so were we in breach?
     
  19. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    *yawn* same old untruths. This is just the personal opinions of the banal person. 13A sockets are permitted on a lighting circuit.

    One day everybody will die and usually their house will be sold.

    Please state the regulation that states that only a 1.00 mm cable to be used for lights.

    I have installed and maintained many systems that use 1.5mm cable for lighting. Should I be prosecuted?
     
  20. seneca

    seneca Screwfix Select

    What it means is that 1.00mm should only be used for lights, not sockets etc. You can wire lights in 10mm if you want to! ( I know you know this Bazza!) I have put several 13a sockets on lighting circuits in the past in lofts for aerial amps and alarms/cameras etc.
     

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