Double glazing installation

Discussion in 'Other Trades Talk' started by maiguinness, May 4, 2019.

  1. maiguinness

    maiguinness New Member

    Hi all! We recently had 9 upvc windows replaced aluminium, 7 of them with acoustic glazing 8.8mm/6mm (two bay windows and a bedroom all leading to front of the house).

    We raised a complaint with the company on the last day of the installation as the new windows were noisier than previous old windows and had prepared a list of complaints too.

    Here we posted pictures we've collected from during the installation

    We think the property was not correctly surveyed.. From GGF installations manual it says to remove architrave to assess the opening and take appropriate measurements where sash-box or check-reveals were found. The surveyor never did this.

    The surveyor also said the woodwork around the windows were of a nice construction and that they only needed to trim 10mm to fit new frames, which we've agreed but expected for the installers to remove them to make the cut and because they didn't more than 10mm were cut.

    The company is only going to do these remedial work:
    -Re-fit the bathroom window (as one of the packers has not been installed)
    -Rear bedroom window to be de glazed and the visible silver tape to be removed and then re-glazed
    -Fill all of the external bay windows where some of the mortar has been dislodged removing the old windows then re-seal and clean
    -Fit a colour matched upvc trim around the inner bay windows for a more aesthetic finish over the black silicone (which we don't agree and they only try to cover a bad job)

    What's your opinion on this? We're now going to write to GGF & Fensa and see if they can help.
     
  2. Can you please post pictures that can be seen without joining some scam application.
     
  3. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Window surveyors are not real surveyors, just glorified reps, in fact it’s an insult to use the same word in comparison with a proper chartered surveyor. 99.99999999% of window “surveyors” wouldn’t dream of removing existing architrave or cover moulds to check the frame thickness when initially measuring up, and why would they? There’s no guarantee of them securing the job at that point, and the level of work involved in neatly removing decades old painted or stained bespoke panelling at the risk of damaging any, or having an awkward customer who tries to screw them for everything they can get isn’t worth the fuss of checking what’s behind the architraves.

    If the job was secured and booked in, THEN, as a fitter I would think it essential to call back, remove a piece of architrave or cover mould and check the dimensions behind, and tack it back on ready for the proper fit. However, it’s not always possible to “just pop in and check”, cream carpets, perfect paintwork, 11’ high ceilings, antique furniture, antique panelling, BLACK MORTAR etc mean that such a large level of care would be needed that easily half a day could be eaten up just in pulling a couple of cover moulds off. Which obviously needs to be factored in to the price.

    Fensa won’t help you, they are a complete con, they’re only interested in if the glass meets the U value requirements or not, they couldn’t give a monkeys for installation errors.
     
    JASON BUXBAUM likes this.
  4. maiguinness

    maiguinness New Member

  5. maiguinness

    maiguinness New Member

    I think the same Jord... I asked for the surveyor MTC card and the company doesn't want to provide because of GDPR.
    If he's done a proper surveying and inform us that replacing our windows with the type of house we have would cost us more... then fair enough.. we could either accept it or not... but he never said anything. I talked to an independent fenestration surveyor who said there are 3 types of installation for the type of house we have and that he failed to advice us there.

    The company won't do anything about it as they say everything was according to quotation and that the surveying was correct. The company's policy is to contact GGF, independent surveyor said to contact FENSA and building regs inspector said if everything fail with those two to contact Trading Standards
     
  6. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    Unfortunately most of your photos are too close to see anything glaringly bad in the context, as they were taken during the installation I take it everything is foamed, sealed and finished now? Apart from what you mentioned in your original post, obviously. What is it you actually want?
     
  7. maiguinness

    maiguinness New Member

    I want to know if other people had similar experience with this type of installation and contacting Fensa, GGF
     
  8. As jord says the photo's are too close to see the actual finish.
    I would have had sliding timber sash windows fitted,which were probably what was there originally before the plastic ones you got removed.
    Sash windows look a lot better, and more in keeping with the property.
     
    JASON BUXBAUM likes this.
  9. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    I wouldnt have chosen those windows, however, they dont look too badly installed.

    What you need to do now is to think about what needs to be done to complete then.

    You will need some colour matched upvc trims in places for sure. Nothing bodgy about that. Better than a thick silicone bead.

    You will need some of the gaps up to the masonry (inevitable and nothing bodgy again about them) done with sand and cement neatly and then painted up.

    And some of the timber sections will need the attention of a good and skilled carpenter/joiner using sapele/ meranti etc to face them up and then painted.

    From what I can (pics arent the easiest to work out!) see the job isnt too bad but just isnt finished.
     
  10. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    At the end of the day if upvc windows are going to go where sashes were there will be plenty of mackling needed. Good Midlands expression for scrambling a bit!
     
  11. maiguinness

    maiguinness New Member

    Thanks for your comments!

    I wish we had the money to replace 9 windows with lovely wooden sash but it was not pocket possible. When we bought this house, all windows were upvc and we upgraded to aluminium with acoustic glazing... although the noise is more prominent now... so we think the surveyor didn't measure the openings properly... otherwise how come the noise has gotten worse?

    We had light coming in from the bay windows downstairs:
    https://ibb.co/hyXy2v0

    They left the wood from previous sash on top, and old upvc windows were still not replaced at the bottom:
    https://ibb.co/j9Nfm30

    These pictures are of the finished job:
    https://ibb.co/26Q2qwn
    https://ibb.co/svJjrGs
    https://ibb.co/wdxSFDW
     
  12. goldenboy

    goldenboy Super Member

    Its not a question of poor measuring.

    Its a question of the perimeter of the windows not being properly closed up.

    There are others on here with more experience regarding window fitting but I would have thought they should have a full perimeter of foam then that trimmed back and then sand and cemented and sealed

    The sound will be getting round the edges.

    A thick bead of black silicone looks rough.
     
  13. maiguinness

    maiguinness New Member

    I'm back after dealing with GGF... which the only thing they did is to waste my time as they're only interested in defending their member. I did discover after all this that the installers had their MTC card expired in July 2018 (our installation was in March this year) and FENSA won't do anything about it either. What's the point of MTC cards... ridiculous!

    I was tired of all this, so I went and removed part of the architrave myself and this is what I found...
    https://ibb.co/M8Lrj6k
    https://ibb.co/L6HXw2D
    https://ibb.co/BgWb4wF
    https://ibb.co/LZLT2nD
    https://ibb.co/0jtY2Kp

    Noise and cold are clearly coming this way... and to me it looks they should've used a larger frame packer... the windows are too short in the width. I still believe surveying caused all these issues :eek:

    I'm still gonna fight this... but just so I know... is there a way we could fix this? is foam the solution? and a carpenter to put all these back?
     
  14. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    Get a quote to put it right and take them through the small claims court. Don’t faff around with trade bodies etc. Pursue them for money
     
  15. JASON BUXBAUM

    JASON BUXBAUM New Member

    You could fill the voids with an appropriate insulation material that will be perfectly adequate I would have thought at stopping chills and sound..
     
  16. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    sorry to repeat. read precisely what you contracted them to do: word for word please. Identify exactly what they have failed to do and then get a quote from someone else to remedy the situation and pursue them for the cost through the courts. If the committed to close the gaps and finish off then pursue them for that. if they didn't well sorry, its your problem. if they committed to get building reg approval via competent person scheme and didn't then again you have a strong case. If they said nothing about it, sorry, then its up to you.

    go back to the black and white paperwork and read it objectively...
     
  17. koolpc

    koolpc Screwfix Select

    Can you come to the UK and give me a free quote? :p
     

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