Downlights and Loft Insulation

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Rod Hubbard, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. Rod Hubbard

    Rod Hubbard New Member

    I have these downlights installed under loft insulation with halogen GU10s. They are marked as fire rated and fire rated under insulation, but the installation just doesn’t look safe? I’m wondering if i should convert them to LED bulbs (that's happening progressively as the halogens blow anyway) and put plastic cage covers, the SpotClip type, over them to better meet building regs?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. dobbie

    dobbie Well-Known Member

    They are not fire rated and should not be under insulation.
    The F means it can be mounted on a normally flamable surface.
     
  3. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Well-Known Member

    .. and should be more than 50mm away from flammable materials..like the batten in the pic.
    solution is led.... or a non flammable laminate shield.
    Symbols show it may be covered with insulation on normally flammable surfaces.
    And also on normally flammable surfaces.
    500mm from objects in the room...and limits some lamp types.

    RS
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  4. ginger tuffs

    ginger tuffs Member

    can you not get fireproof hoods to cover light fitting
     
  5. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    To be specific, yes, you can reduce the risk of fire if you replace the standard tungsten filament lamps with LED equivalents.
     
  6. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Well-Known Member

    Yes.....or use a clay flower pot...or just dont cover them in the insulation.
    RS
     
  7. Comlec

    Comlec Active Member

    Good idea. However, it is the hole in the ceiling that is 'fire risk' that could allow fire to pass. So even with LED lamps a hood or better still integral fire protection should be fitted.
     
  8. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    Nice one Mr C
     
  9. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    The holes in the ceiling are not the fire risk at all. They are puncturing the fire barrier. The 'fire risk' is the heat generated by the lamps. They can reach temperatures of 200 deg C. LED lamps, on the other hand, are nowhere near as hot, in fact relatively cool, so that's how the fire risk is tempered, the holes are a side issue should there actually be a fire. You can drill holes in a ceiling but the act of doing so doesn't create a fire risk. The ceiling is not going to catch fire if you drill holes. Its what you put in the hole that can cause it to catch fire. Sorry to be pedantic but that's why so many arguments ensue, incorrect logic.
     
  10. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    The fire rating aspect of items pushed in to a fire barrier is the subject of the misunderstanding. A plasterboard ceiling can be rated at 30 minutes, 1 hour or 90 minutes, dependent upon its composition. The idea behind fire rating of light fittings fitted in to holes cut in to it is to restore the rating of the barrier to the fire. It won't necessarily prevent a fire. There could be a fire caused by something else in the room below, such as an arsenist grinning evilly as he sets fire to the setee deliberately. The ceiling if correctly installed with fire protection measures can withhold the fire sufficiently for the arsenist to escape, but if the holes drilled in the ceiling have not been adequately protected to resist the fire they are weak points that allow the fire to penetrate the ceiling prematurely. Tongue now removed from cheek. :p
     
  11. Comlec

    Comlec Active Member

    How to start an argument in an empty room.

    Note
    I have no further comment to make on this subject. I refer readers to all comments made on this subject in 2004 to IET discussions.
     
  12. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    You are a funny bugger arent you comlec. Cant stand being corrected.
     
  13. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    From what I understand Un - to maintain ceiling fire rating (fire rating being the operable words) when fitting down lights then suitable fire rated units should be used to maintain integrity of said - fire rated fittings are not always required when say there is no space above the ceiling, a flat roof extension for instance. However might just as well use fire rated fittings anyway.
     
  14. leesparkykent

    leesparkykent Well-Known Member

  15. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Yes, JP, that's right. The fire barrier is the ceiling construction itself. If there is a requirement to make a ceiling resistant to fire as part of an overall fire protection regime in the building then all it is required is that any penetrations in it do not compromise the rating. Adding fire-rated fittings is a way of ensuring that the fire barrier is maintained. The light fittings themselves may contribute to causing a fire if they are of incorrect type or incorrectly installed. That is a separate matter entirely to the fire rating requirements of the ceiling. To prevent fire the light fittings must be suitable for being in the environment they are placed. Two complimentary issues with different aspects.
     
  16. JP.

    JP. Screwfix Select

    Thanks very much Un
     
  17. koolpc

    koolpc Well-Known Member

    We got LED in ours and I then put a proper shroud over them, plus, I made sure no insulation covering them too
     
  18. Rod Hubbard

    Rod Hubbard New Member

    Thanks to everyone for the replies, it has clarified what I need to do and certainly validates the usefulness of this forum.
     
  19. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Well-Known Member

    Yea, my uncle has OCD as well.. !:p
    Rs
     
  20. koolpc

    koolpc Well-Known Member

    Not OCD but LED! Lol
     

Share This Page