Economy 7

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by neil booth, Oct 4, 2022.

  1. neil booth

    neil booth New Member

    Has anyone got an economy 7 electric meter....? i have only just found out they are only worth having if you have storage heaters , or a boiler running all night long because the day time usage is more expensive !! now i do not have any heating , i unplugged all the storage heaters , i never ever have the boiler turned on ..cold water taps only ..electric shower is my only hot water source .., my only heater is a small portable one and a wood burner ,,i dont have gas the only electric i use at night is 2 laptops , and 2 table lamps , 6pm i sometimes use an electric oven for 30m or the microwave , and a kettle that is it ..i don't have a clothes dryer ... or television .. So its not worth me having it ..it was in the house when i moved in 7 years ago ..i only ever used the storage heaters for the first 2 years before switching them off for good ..
     
  2. neil booth

    neil booth New Member

    also whenever i input the meter reading to British Gas on the web page i get this message ...."Are you sure ? that seems a little high" ........i am baffled because i do not have anything running over night other than 2 laptops and 3 light bulbs ..from 7pm till 11.30pm ....
     
  3. WillyEckerslike

    WillyEckerslike Screwfix Select

    Fridge or freezer?
     
  4. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    EVERYTHING should be on E7 during the seven hour period.

    Can you give the Standard and Off-peak readings for the last four quarters.
     
  5. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    not necessarily
    @neil booth do you have two consumer units/fuseboxes? One for 24-hour stuff, and one for the Old storage radiators?
    Post a photo of them if you arent sure.

    I guess you dont have immersion heater(s) in your hot water tank ?
     
  6. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    In many areas other than Scotland you can not longer get Economy 7, but if you have it you can retain it, the tariffs use to be higher during the day, but this seems to vary supplier to supplier, it is not always the case.

    My supplier went bust and we were auto transferred, and I have not really studied the new rates, likely I should change supplier, but my electric use is low, and everything is in flux, so hard to work out.

    However Economy 7 is a tariff, not a system, and how it is delivered has changed over the years, early versions had a white meter, and two fuse boxes, and anything off the off peak fuse box was only active for 7 hours at night.

    However this required for example two immersion heaters, one for off peak and one for boost, and one could not gain using dish washer, washing machine, tumble drier etc over night, so later systems had a trigger wire to tell the heaters when to work, and one fuse box, or consumer unit did all, and it was not uncommon to find huge bills where the times were out.

    Today all replaced with the smart meter, which I don't have, I would hope there is some output from the smart meter to say when power is cheap, but not looked into it.

    I am told although never tested it out myself, even when my central heating needs to heat up all the pipe work to the hot coil in the hot water tank, it is still cheaper to use oil, my immersion is there for off, but one can set the thermostat on the immersion to only come on when the tank is not being heated with oil or gas.

    I have checked my supply, using one of these Clamp-meter-small.jpg I can test whole supply, but really that is in the main pointless as so many items it is hard to identify what is using the power, these Energy-monitor.jpg do a much better job, as you can test item by item, these upload_2022-10-4_11-28-34.png do the same without using a PC, and a lot cheaper, but most things have the power used written on them, checking fridges and freezers every so often can alert one if the thermostat is not working or the thermal insulation has failed, but most people can work out, if you switch some thing on it costs, so why one needs to measure not so sure.

    I think there is a lot of miss information being given, I simply don't believe a Freddy Boswell look alike can turn his lights on/off by clapping hands after fitting a smart meter, and anyway hey google turn on landing lights is far more selective. My thoughts are if the information on smart meters is so ridiculously wrong, why should I trust anything the government says?
     
  7. neil booth

    neil booth New Member

    i have no hot water at all through the taps ,the boiler is never turned on ..last time i had it running was 6 years ago ...the only hot water i have is from the shower .....ps the meter in the photo is the only one ...its a push button switch to switch between night and day readings
     

    Attached Files:

  8. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    So with that meter everything should switch to E7 overnight.

    Can you provide the last 4 sets of readings?
     
  9. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Not so!!
    From that meter there is one neutral that goes to a Henley block. then there are two line outputs. I expect that one will go to a 24 hour consumer unit and the other to an off peak board.

    That I why I asked @neil booth if he has
    two consumer units/fuseboxes?

    Neil, PLEASE answer my question
    again
    Post a photo of them if you arent sure.
     
  10. neil booth

    neil booth New Member

    ...Hi this is what fuse boxes i have ...
     

    Attached Files:

  11. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select


    Yes. During the E7 period the E7 output becomes live and charged at E7 rate, the 24 hour output stays live and is also charged at E7 rate during that time.
     
    SIRJOHN19 likes this.
  12. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Really? ah well, you live and learn.
    I had understood that the 24 hour circuits were at a higher tariff, all of the time..

    OK, @neil booth The right hand board is the one that goes to all of the old storage radiator points. SO that is redundant and can be removed.

    But first job is to call your energy supplier and have them take you off the E7 tariff. Then your electricity is not at a premium rate during your waking hours!

    Depending on your supplier, the savings can be substantial. Here's a (probably out of date) comparison..

    British Gas charge(d) 16.96p for the standard meter rate.
    but, if you were on E7, then your daytime electricity is billed at an eye-watering rate of 21.39p during peak time and 10.16p during night time periods.
    So you need to be using a lot of off peak electricity to make E7 worthwhile.
    You don't so time to take action! They may want to change the meter, so be prepared for a "smart" one!

    Then,
    find yourself a competent/registered electrician and have those old boards taken out. The left hand one needs bringing up to date. At the same time, the electrician could convert your old storage radiator switches into 13A sockets, using the existing wiring.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022
  13. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    I myself am on E10 which has 3 hours in the afternoon. I had two oven plus a tumble drier on, all in non-E10 sockets - and checked the meter. Standard (T1) did not change, E10 (T2) increase by 2 units.

    About 25-30 years back I came acorss a situation where the contacts had been welded in a dual dial meter following a nail through cable episode. It was stuck on E7 - the E7bill was high but standard was nil. The supplier had been and "checked" - no fault found, and they carried on for around 12 months with low bills.


    You are right about possibly moving off E7, and it is, in some cases, possible to now do it without a meter change. Looking at teh OPs bills will confirm it one way or the other. I got rid of storage heaters a long time back, but timing use of dishwasher, tumble drier, washing machine to co-incide with E10 times, means that it can be cheaper. For example looking at teh current rates and comparing E10 against standard tarrifs from my supplier suggests a quarterly saving of around £100-120
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022
  14. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Hi @Bazza

    With the original "White Meter" when the timeswitch flicked the off peak on, the meter automatically charged everything at the lower rate. Many people set their washing machines etc going overnight to benefit.

    There were also a lot of tarrifs in the 70's that introduced a midday boost too, they also gave cheap rate during that time.

    Don't know how the later tarrifs worked and obviously you can't get them now.
     
    Bazza likes this.
  15. current bun

    current bun Member

    If the OP has the funds and inclination he could install a 10KWHr battery for £5k and charge it up overnight at his E7 rate and then use the battery during the day effectively giving him 24 hour E7 rate electricity!
    Would take a few years to pay for itself but depending on the rates might be worth considering.
     
  16. neil booth

    neil booth New Member

    Ok thanks ..just a note ..i tried contacting British Gas and was on hold for around 10 minutes only to be then told i have a 1 hour wait on hold !!! i slammed the phone down ..and instead went online to British Gas "live chat " to speak to an advisor ...and bloody hell .i was in a queue at position 248 !!! i gave up ...
     
  17. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    You ask for advice, I asked twice for you to share the readings ... and you ignore it.
     
  18. The Happy Builder

    The Happy Builder Screwfix Select

    @neil booth

    you need to change to a new tariff and have a Smart Meter installed as well if the supplier insists on fitting one for you to get the cheapest rate.
     
  19. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    So had I, this is why we moved off white meter system, so that running a washing machine over night could use the off peak power, but that's not the old white meter, so not sure how that one works.

    It seems the higher day rate was not charged by all suppliers, it all depends on your deal.

    However the Wylex consumer unit to left seems to have over a 30 amp MCB in the second slot, orange is normally 40 amp, and for the 40 amp you have a reinforced set of contacts Wylex heavy duty.jpg note right hand silver look, rest are brass, so 40 amp always goes in the right hand slot, or you can get this, Wylex burnt contacts.jpg most the old Wilex fuse boxes would not take the 40 amp fuse, it was a special to take 40 amp.

    Not sure what green was? it was white 5 amp, grey 10 amp, blue 15 amp, yellow 20 amp, red 30 amp, and orange 40 amp, using MCB's you got 6 instead of 5 amp, and 32 instead of 30 amp. You could fit a smaller fuse in than base but not a larger one, how anyone got a 40 amp to fit a 30 amp base I don't know?
     

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