Electric Cars

AnotherTopJob said:
If fuel becomes unaffordable, then so will your weekly shop. As you know, just about everything in-store has been transported by a Diesel vehicle. It's the only viable fuel for virtually all commercial vehicles, and will be for many more years.
And can you imagine the cost to produce food if farmers are forced to invest in electric tractors?
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John Deere are already on it:-
https://www.deere.co.uk/en/agriculture/future-of-farming/

All you need is a Government grant to allow installation of high level solar panels in your fields. Then you can grow crops underneath, provide clean energy to the Grid and power your electric tractors. Sadly we don't have a government with vision, so it might take a little longer than we would like. It will happen though.

Amazon are starting to buy EV trucks. The Tesla Semi is due out next year. DAF, Voltatrucks are all investing. The new Mercedes eSprinter is coming soon with around 300 miles of range.
Electric HGVs offer enormous cost savings and improvements in safety. Tesla have been looking at road trains where the lead Semi takes control of other Semis following close behind and operates the fleet as a single vehicle reducing drag, and making goods transport ever more efficient and clean.
 
AmateurBodger said:
John Deere are already on it:-
https://www.deere.co.uk/en/agriculture/future-of-farming/

All you need is a Government grant to allow installation of high level solar panels in your fields. Then you can grow crops underneath, provide clean energy to the Grid and power your electric tractors. Sadly we don't have a government with vision, so it might take a little longer than we would like. It will happen though.

Amazon are starting to buy EV trucks. The Tesla Semi is due out next year. DAF, Voltatrucks are all investing. The new Mercedes eSprinter is coming soon with around 300 miles of range.
Electric HGVs offer enormous cost savings and improvements in safety. Tesla have been looking at road trains where the lead Semi takes control of other Semis following close behind and operates the fleet as a single vehicle reducing drag, and making goods transport ever more efficient and clean.
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Imagine waiting patiently for the perfect weather to harvest your crop. Instead of spending an intensive week of solid 12 hour days, you have to spend half of it charging or swapping batteries on your machinery. Because it's taken so long, the weather has turned and your crop is now ruined.
 
CraigMcK said:
My Tesla is currently giving 300w/M my fixed rate is 26.5p/kwh, so the car is costing ~8p/M. On the other hand my 4 series mild hybrid diesel gave me 50mpg average, with todays RAC diesel price of 172.85/L (£7.85/G) that is ~16p/M. At the point my fixed rate finishes I'll switch to a night tariff which are about 10p/kwh meaning ~3.5p/M in the winter and ~2.5p/M in summer.
Given I do about 12,000 miles a year diesel would be £1920 and electric ~ £360 if I charge at home, there is clearly a lot of scope to pick up any on route charging needed and still be very happy.
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I agree with your current calculations, but your future costs are based on an assumption that you will be able to access a cheap tariff. My comments are based on the now running a 2016 Renault Clio diesel with zero rad tax and no congestion charge. As for the future, no one has yet come up with a solution to the inevitable problem if we all go electric and heat by it too. That is where is all of this power coming from and how are they going to get it to the users, we are looking at a 4 fold increase or more in electricity use if we all go electric for transport and heating.
Your Tesla has to go back to the dealer, even to have a wheel changed for a puncture, Tesla have not published data for 3rd party providers to safely jack up the car without damaging the battery. Halfords will only work on Toyota hybrids and electric as the data is published.
 
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Bob Rathbone said:
I agree with your current calculations, but your future costs are based on an assumption that you will be able to access a cheap tariff. My comments are based on the now running a 2016 Renault Clio diesel with zero rad tax and no congestion charge. As for the future, no one has yet come up with a solution to the inevitable problem if we all go electric and heat by it too. That is where is all of this power coming from and how are they going to get it to the users, we are looking at a 4 fold increase or more in electricity use if we all go electric for transport and heating.
Your Tesla has to go back to the dealer, even to have a wheel changed for a puncture, Tesla have not published data for 3rd party providers to safely jack up the car without damaging the battery. Halfords will only work on Toyota hybrids and electric as the data is published.
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Yeah, I saw a broken down Tesla being loaded onto a flat-bed truck.
All that was wrong - a flat tyre!
 
AmateurBodger said:
Electric HGVs offer enormous cost savings and improvements in safety. Tesla have been looking at road trains where the lead Semi takes control of other Semis following close behind and operates the fleet as a single vehicle reducing drag, and making goods transport ever more efficient and clean.
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What roads will the electric road trains drive on in the UK? Normal 38 ton lorries struggle on some Uk roads, therefore it is absolutely ridiculous suggesting we have road trains. The weight of the batteries for HGV trucks will severely cut down the amount of goods they can carry to meet our weight limits, therefore more load on the infrastructure as more journeys and charging is required to match the normal HGV lorries.
 
Bob Rathbone said:
I agree with your current calculations, but your future costs are based on an assumption that you will be able to access a cheap tariff. My comments are based on the now running a 2016 Renault Clio diesel with zero rad tax and no congestion charge. As for the future, no one has yet come up with a solution to the inevitable problem if we all go electric and heat by it too. That is where is all of this power coming from and how are they going to get it to the users, we are looking at a 4 fold increase or more in electricity use if we all go electric for transport and heating.
Your Tesla has to go back to the dealer, even to have a wheel changed for a puncture, Tesla have not published data for 3rd party providers to safely jack up the car without damaging the battery. Halfords will only work on Toyota hybrids and electric as the data is published.
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The tyre comment is incorrect. Tesla have advised how to lift the car and you can get trolly pucks for that very purpose. You can go to any tyre company for a new tyre. EV tyres with foam inserts can be repaired in the same way a traditional tyre can be fixed. There are many makes now not supplying a spare and it you happen to rip a chunk out of a tyre you would need recovery on any of those cars, or a mobile fitter, which again can replace a Tesla tyre too.

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CraigMcK said:
The tyre comment is incorrect. Tesla have advised how to lift the car and you can get trolly pucks for that very purpose. You can go to any tyre company for a new tyre. EV tyres with foam inserts can be repaired in the same way a traditional tyre can be fixed. There are many makes now not supplying a spare and it you happen to rip a chunk out of a tyre you would need recovery on any of those cars, or a mobile fitter, which again can replace a Tesla tyre too.

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Tesla have clearly responded to requests from the trade for the data to be published, must have been quite recent as my information was only a week old and direct from a Halfords manager. My Clio was not supplied with a spare so I brought a wheel and keep it in the boot, that's my flat tyre issue solved.
 
Bob Rathbone said:
Tesla have clearly responded to requests from the trade for the data to be published, must have been quite recent as my information was only a week old and direct from a Halfords manager. My Clio was not supplied with a spare so I brought a wheel and keep it in the boot, that's my flat tyre issue solved.
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I think it Halfords who have no idea. That data has been in the manuals for a couple of years!
 
arrow said:
What roads will the electric road trains drive on in the UK? Normal 38 ton lorries struggle on some Uk roads, therefore it is absolutely ridiculous suggesting we have road trains.
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Motorways. They do it on motorways. Just as in the US they will do it on Freeways.

Here's the info about weight:
https://electrek.co/2021/08/13/tesla-semi-electric-truck-weight-on-point-crucial/

It turns out that they have in fact thought about the weight of the truck and weight restrictions. Who'd have thought it?
 
AmateurBodger said:
Motorways. They do it on motorways. Just as in the US they will do it on Freeways.
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Pretty impossible on UK roads, with the amount of traffic and population density. Imagine trying to negotiate M25 road closures or operation Brock!

It would require not only massive changes to the laws, but huge fleet investment and changes to service areas.
 
AmateurBodger said:
Motorways. They do it on motorways. Just as in the US they will do it on Freeways.

Here's the info about weight:
https://electrek.co/2021/08/13/tesla-semi-electric-truck-weight-on-point-crucial/

It turns out that they have in fact thought about the weight of the truck and weight restrictions. Who'd have thought it?
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Just to be devil's advocate on this.

The info on weight is around 18 months old and given Musk's hype in the past on everything from self driving to hyper loops etc. I would take this with a pinch of salt. In fact according to Reuters (very recent reporting) there is no final information as to how much cargo it can haul and how far or pricing, absolutely crucial numbers.

As for the "road trains", if this means a leading truck with a number of driverless units following behind and controlled by the lead truck, I don't think it requires much more than a few minutes thought as to why this will never happen. I, for one, would pay good money to see something along those lines attempt to negotiate an off ramp leading to a roundabout!
 
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Muzungu said:
In fact according to Reuters (very recent reporting) there is no final information as to how much cargo it can haul and how far or pricing, absolutely crucial numbers.

As for the "road trains", if this means a leading truck with a number of driverless units following behind and controlled by the lead truck, I don't think it requires much more than a few minutes thought as to why this will never happen. I, for one, would pay good money to see something along those lines attempt to negotiate an off ramp leading to a roundabout!
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You are quite correct that there are no final number. But do you really think that Musk is going to produce a truck that no-one can use because it's too heavy? That would be insane.

As to the second point, the road train element is proposed to work on the Freeway or Motorway. The *driver* takes the off ramp. Although in the US the autopilot will have no problem with off ramps.
 
AmateurBodger said:
Motorways. They do it on motorways. Just as in the US they will do it on Freeways.
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What a load of nonsense. Road trains are not allowed in the uk at the moment and very little of the usa. I am sure they will not change the law here to allow electric vehicle roadtrains, make the roads worse, even although they would not work in this country anyway.
 
AmateurBodger said:
You are quite correct that there are no final number. But do you really think that Musk is going to produce a truck that no-one can use because it's too heavy? That would be insane.

As to the second point, the road train element is proposed to work on the Freeway or Motorway. The *driver* takes the off ramp. Although in the US the autopilot will have no problem with off ramps.
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It will be interesting to see the final number. I can't see Tesla putting this off, or so its appears, for much longer. You can be sure if the figure was an improvement on diesel it would be trumpeted from the rooftops by Musk. As I say, we will find out soon.

As for the road trains I think you are being over optimistic. Saying the autopilot will have no problems with off ramps is a bit of a leap in the dark to say the least. This is if we are talking about true driverless units behind the "master" unit. The technology just doesn't exist yet to do this in any safety, and I doubt it ever will.

Tesla cars do have the facility to handle off ramps but it is very far from being free from driver input to ensure safety. To quote Tesla themselves, "Never depend on Navigate on Autopilot to determine an appropriate lane at an off-ramp."

As I say, we shall see, but in my opinion it will be one of these technologies that is always a few years away from reality.
 
The solution could be the ability to sell charging time for your home charger, for a cost, to someone who needs to charge - whereby massively increasing the availability of charging locations to many many houses.

It would require careful management and setup, but I think this is a real option in some cases.
 
arrow said:
What a load of nonsense. Road trains are not allowed in the uk at the moment and very little of the usa.
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These will not be road trains in the conventional sense where you have a single cab pulling a massive train of cabooses. Just a series of lorries driving very close to each other, and controlled by the lead vehicle. When a lorry wants to leave the group it's a relatively simple job for the lead vehicle to detect an indicator and allow space in front and behind the lorry.

It's called Convoy mode - and it exists. It just needs some approvals to be obtained.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/16/t...WksKBDfeiGvDftQFpeTI4BOL8jc3-8p_HDf_1KDCFw30O
 
Abbadon2001 said:
The solution could be the ability to sell charging time for your home charger, for a cost, to someone who needs to charge - whereby massively increasing the availability of charging locations to many many houses.

It would require careful management and setup, but I think this is a real option in some cases.
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Yes you can already do this. There are a number of apps that allow you to set a per hour fee for using your charger. It's down to you to calculate the cost though - it doesn't interface directly with what you are paying for your electricity.
 
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