Electric under laminate floor heating film Vs. Matt

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Alistair walker, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Alistair walker

    Alistair walker New Member

    Hi

    I’m just about to put in a new kitchen and laminate floor and need to install a heated floor system due to lack of wall space to hang radiators etc. The floor is made from solid concrete. I will be installing it myself and so want something quick and easy to lay preferably without screading. So im looking at laying either electric heated woven mats or electric heated film which I’ve seen in kit form on ebay. Does anyone have experience of these two types of under floor heating?. Which one is best? Can I just put down underlay then roll the heating mats out, tape them down, wire them together, install a thermostat then install the laminate floor?. Are there any systems to avoid?. Do I need to wire the system into a dedicated circuit?


    Any help is appreciated.
     
  2. wiggy

    wiggy Screwfix Select

  3. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    I personally would use plinth hydraulic fan assisted heater, as far quicker heating kitchen and a lot cheaper to run. Look at Myson.
    However if you do want electric under floor heating there are two very different types. One has a resistance wire and any thing placed on the wire can cause local over heating, the other uses a chemical which to some extent is self regulating so it will get hotter with some thing on top, but will not hit a silly heat.

    I have it fitted in my wet room the simple resistance type, mainly as for a wet room I would need a metallic earth mat on top with other type and when I took over floor already laid.

    First job is you need to stop heat going down, so it was a bandjack and old floor removed to around 9 inches down, then polistiren blocks fitted, then plywood floor then heating cables and thermostat pocket, then tiles. It was a big job, and after all that near useless, without the towel rail the wet room is rather cold. It does dry the floor which was why it was fitted but that takes an hour.

    The major problem with all underfloor heating is max temperature of floor is 30 deg C, if you measure area of floor where you can lay the mat likely not that big, at around 200W per sq meter my kitchen would be around 500W, that is about same output as a towel rail. Now a Myson Kickspace 600 hydronic heater has an output of 1.6 to 2 Kw which is likely double the output you will get from underfloor heating. You can also get all electric versions more cost to run but cheaper to buy and install. I have a Myson fan assisted radiator in living room, been there for 25 years trouble free, however there is some noise from fan, but so much smaller that standard radiator and no problem with chairs being placed in front of it as it forces heat out does not rely on convection.
     
    Pollowick likes this.
  4. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Super Member

    OP
    Let me get this straight;
    You are wanting to heat up a solid concrete floor ?
    Then insulate it from the room with a very good wood insulator (laminate) ?
    You are wishing to keep the room cold ?
    Don't see what you are trying to achieve.
    :D
    Rs
     
    DIY womble likes this.
  5. Pollowick

    Pollowick Screwfix Select

    I would suggest the same ... They are very effective at quickly warming the kitchen and in summer when teh kitchen is hot, then can be used to get a decent airflow to cool the room too.
     
  6. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Following the general theme of the above. Electric underfloor heating is OK so your bare tootsies aren't too cold as you pad across the bathroom floor. But hopeless as the primary way to heat a room space.
    But at least its a kitchen - you can always turn on the oven and leave the door open.
     
    Dave Marques likes this.
  7. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    Under floor heating has been out for some time [​IMG] However the main thing is the floor is a massive heat store, so once warm it stays warm for a week, even with the modern systems it is getting the fabric of the building warm, and job one is to stop heat going down into the ground, this [​IMG] is the bit that costs all the money, with the one in my house we had to dig out floor anyway for drains, once all that insulation is laid the floor is naturally warm, the tiles are never what you would say is cold. With a hot water system the water temperature is controlled so floor can't over heat, with electric even the chemical system needs a sensor in the floor to ensure it does not over heat, with a good insulation the sensor goes in a pocket, in other words a pipe, so it can be renewed, this pipe has to bend up the wall with a sweeping bend so the sensor can be pulled out and new one put in. So from concrete base the finish level is at least 6" higher. This also has a knock on effect, I remember carefully setting all sockets to 300mm then underfloor heating went in and they were now too low.

    It can work, however there has to be a very low heat loss, as heat in is so slow, so you will need a heat recovery unit, and I am not sure that is a good thing in a kitchen? If cooking gases deposit fat on the heat exchanger it could block it and become a fire risk, so it would need to be an easy clean type and it would need cleaning on a regular basis.

    Even the type of cooking matters, with an electric induction hob very little heat goes into the room, and no combustion gases, but with a gas cooker you need to remove combustion gases so you need a cooker hood piped to outside, simple carbon filters are not good enough with gas.

    You do need to look at the job as a whole, not individually parts, as each bit changes how the whole runs, a simple thing like combining utility room and kitchen together so the tumble drier is in the kitchen, which sucks air out of kitchen and throws it away outside will have a massive impact on heating. The other types will likely have an impact on cooling, although my kitchen has velox windows in roof to let out heat in summer, some need extractor fans.

    Looking at a plinth heater [​IMG] they don't take up wall space, look quite neat, and will being so low down keep your toes just as toasty warm as under floor heating, and will integrate nicely with most kitchens. KISS or keep is simple silly, and with electric versions very easy and simple to fit, water versions a little more complex, however all pipes are hidden under cupboards so not that hard.
    Have a look here on another forum where some one has posted pictures of fitting the plinth heater.

    Seems forum does not like my picture of Roman Hypocaust so changed. Do note Romans also heated walls.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
  8. Alistair walker

    Alistair walker New Member

    Hi, Many thanks for your reply's. The reason I have opted for under floor heating is due to the layout of the kitchen units. There will be a large Island in the centre of the room and so im not sure where id position a plinth heater as the island itself is an obstruction for the flow of heat. My plan was to place a ring of electric underfloor heating around the island. The dining area of the room has 2 radiators and so that end should be fine. Im just concerned that the kitchen end needs a boost of heat to take the chill off.

    upload_2018-10-3_9-11-32.png
     

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  9. Richard_

    Richard_ Screwfix Select

    I'd go for heater cable which can get you to 200 W/m2. Use loads of insulation. Do a calc to check the heat output required, I'd be concerned about the effect of that big bay window, is it modern double glazing?

    If you go for the insultion boards with the cable channel routed out then you only have the tile adhesive above so the floor will be more responsive than a conventional slab. I've not used one of those systems so can't say how good they are so research it well!
     
  10. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    RS, Pollowick and Bazza are on the right track, it will be slow to respond and expensive to run. The heating element is sandwiched between a layer of insulation below and the insulating laminate above, the laminate will be the better insulator. Most of the initial heat will go to the coldest point, the concrete sub floor, after about 2 hours the concrete will begin to get warm and the het will start to make it's way through the laminate. The floor will get warmish but not enough to heat the room. Their will also be a delay when you switch it off as the concrete slab will give up the stored het, some to the room above, some to the soil below.
    My advice would be to fit a good layer of insulation below the laminate, one with a vapour barrier included, and use plinth heaters, either electric or connected to the wet central heating system. It will respond quickly and be cheaper to run. Just taken a good look at the plan, use tall column radiators behind the door lower left and just to the right of it and another rad behind the double doors on the right. Use a fan assisted plinth heater below the hob unit to warm that side of the room.
     
    retiredsparks likes this.
  11. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Super Member

    In the south UK...I feel that people in general (who are working ) need heat to be controlled, economic and flexible.
    Our weather can be summer one day...and snow the next. Hence Storage heaters are a problem (unless used in retirement situations where heat is required 24/7 maybe)
    I have always used wall mounted fan fires in bathrooms. Typical scenario is summer evening, no heating on during day..... cool evening and quick shower needed (that's 5 mins for me and 20 mins her her Ladyship)
    Fan on for 5 mins...no chills. No waste.
    So having heat stored under floor is not what I regard as practical.
    I do appreciate that heat mats under tile in upstairs bathrooms may be very economical and give comfort to tootsies in mornings.
    RS
     

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