Electrical safety certificate..Are RCBOs a legal requirement?

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by SiSmith, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. SiSmith

    SiSmith New Member

    Hi. I intend to rent out my house & although I understand it is not currently a legal requirement I feel that to be a responsible landlord it would be prudent to get an Electrical safety certificate. My property is 1957 ex-council & the distribution board (approx 10 years old) currently only has MCBs fitted. I have made initial enquiries about the cost of the check etc.& one thing that one of the companies I spoke to mentioned was that the MCBs would have to be replaced with RCBOs. Is this a legal requirement for the certificate or am I being potentially set-up for a fall? I know that if I look at a new replacement DB many come populated with RCD protection with MCBs for each circuit & no mention of RCBOs.

    Another question regarding the wiring for the lighting. I know that the original circuits do not have any earths present..is this going to cause problems with the certificate? I'd like to know where it may all head before jumping in the deep end without a bit of prior knowledge.

    TIA
     
  2. EZ Tutty

    EZ Tutty Member

    As far as i'm aware the Regulations are not Retrospective, an therefore shouldn't apply to an installation which complied with the regulations at the time of install.

    Providing it was not required at the time of original installation, RCD protection would more than likely be a recommendation, but not a fail.

    However an installation from 10 years ago i would expect to have some form of RCD protection, are you sure it isn't older?

    RCBO's are a more expensive alternative to RCD's (but have advantages), and are currently not a Requirement.

    RCD protection is 'generally' a requirement for new domestic installations (there are some exceptions)
     
  3. FlyByNight

    FlyByNight Screwfix Select

    Can you upload a picture of the current CU showing the arrangement of switches and breakers
     
  4. SiSmith

    SiSmith New Member

    Thinking on it the DB is probably older than 10 years, probably 15 years. It's a Wickes unit with a 100A DP isolator & MCB for each circuit. Had a look for the installation certificate but not to be found anywhere. Sounds like I need to get it replaced with a new DB so do I go for a unit with RCD & MCB or a RCBO unit?
     
  5. SiSmith

    SiSmith New Member

     

    Attached Files:

  6. SiSmith

    SiSmith New Member

    hope that helps?
     
  7. candoabitofmoststuff

    candoabitofmoststuff Screwfix Select

    I'm not an electrician, so I'm open to correction on this... But if you do decide to get a new CU then the whole installation will need to meet current standards, and I think this will mean that the light circuits will need earths...

    So this might need re-wiring.

    So you might want to consider that.

    Speaking as a responsible landlord myself, (well my wife actually!), if the property is going to be empty I'd suggest it's worth the investment.

    Get an electrician to do a condition report, (In Kent last year it cost me £100), and you'll have a better idea.

    If you do go for a new CU the increased costs of all RCBOs is relativity small in theoverall scheme.

    Good luck,

    Cando
     
    SiSmith likes this.
  8. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    @SiSmith your first action, if you have not already done so, is to read this guide (assuming your property is in England or Wales)

    Next you should engage the services of a reputable electrical contractor to carry out an inspection of the installation. This will produce an EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report) which if unsatisfactory will give you a full list of all the issues you need to rectify to be compliant.

    If you wish to know what might require improvement then this document is a good guide.
     
  9. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    £100! did they get out the van?
     
  10. candoabitofmoststuff

    candoabitofmoststuff Screwfix Select

    You posted the pic while I was typing... I looks like you might have an open terminal showing in that existing CU as well. That will definitely need making right!

    ... But you need to wait for the pros to comment now!

    Cando
     
  11. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    No excuse for that as blanks cost a few pence. The spark doing the inspection must fix this during the visit as it will show as a C1 on the EICR.
     
  12. candoabitofmoststuff

    candoabitofmoststuff Screwfix Select

    That can't be right can it! I was there, and he took over half a day. I must have remembered incorrectly... However, it was being done as a precursor to having a new CU... He wanted to know of any potential issues in advance. Maybe that's why it wasn't much. I'll check.

    Edit... Just checked... it was £130

    (Fortunately there were none, apart from the DIY state inside the CU itself!)

    Cando
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
  13. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Last time I fitted one of those Wickes units was 20 years ago.
     
  14. SiSmith

    SiSmith New Member

    Thanks for the advice. I will read those links you provided. I realise that I'll have to get some remedial work done so trying to get an idea of where it'll lead!
     
  15. glob@l

    glob@l Active Member

    How easy would it be to engage the services of a reputable electrical contractor and are they likely charge a premium for inspecting an installation carried out by others? Would you for example?
     
  16. SiSmith

    SiSmith New Member

    I think the sensible course of action is to get a local contractor to carry out an EICR, get them to quote for anything that needs doing & go from there.
    Thank you all for the input :)
     
  17. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    There is clearly a difference between what one should do, and what one must do. The BS7671 regulations are not law, so it is hard to say what MUST be done, however RCD protection is now regarded as necessary.

    I bought my RCBO's at around £10 each, but to get them to fit your board likely will cost £30 each so it may be cheaper to renew consumer unit than to up grade, and where there are two gaps that needs some thing doing so how much you can get away with I don't know.

    For this reason my house is to be sold, I am not renting it out, because so much is now considered as required, including taking an exam.

    The odd bit (Except Scotland) is anyone can do an EICR, they don't need to have passed any exam or be a member of any over seeing organisation, I could write my own EICR and it is up to me, what I consider as acceptable, I would to cover myself need some professional indemnity insurance, but unless some one is killed it is unlikely I would be taken to court, and if some one is killed professional indemnity insurance may pay out, but I would still be looking at a custodial sentence which means I may not need to pay out anything.

    If you get a new CU fitted the guy doing the job needs to either be a scheme member or do it through LABC, but to inspect there are no such restrictions. However if I was to inspect then I would want to list all faults, and the way to shift blame is often to find a fault which means you don't need to continue testing as clearly once corrected it needs testing again.

    Personally I would pass the buck and use a letting agent, even before the new tighter rules on letting homes, I read this account of death I read it from many sources and it is clear the landlady did all she could, her crime was to allow the tenets into the house before the electrician had visited, 2009 the requirement for RCD had only just come in, and it seems the victim had got the heater from some where else, some reports say different part of house, others she brought it with her from last home.

    Most of the deaths you read about have some thing which the victim did which would not be expected, turning off the water when she could see sparks before the electric was one, people do daft things, and the idea of an EICR is a get out of jail free card. But courts don't always blame the guy one thinks should get the blame.
     
  18. CraigMcK

    CraigMcK Screwfix Select

    I would have expected the solar installation was done at the time of RCD requirements, so that new circuit should have been done if nothing else.
     
  19. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    Not quite. When doing an EICR the absence of RCD protection would only be a Code 3 (improvement) unless the circuit supplies a shower or equipment likely to be used outdoors.

    So, a 2nd floor flat with no electric shower and a plastic box full of old Wylex semi-enclosed fuses can still result in a 'Satisfactory' EICR providing no other observations dictate otherwise. However the EICR would show a number of Code 3 observations re the absence of RCD protection on all circuits as per the 18th Edition.
     
  20. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    I'm both an electrician and a landlord, my let property is 5 hours drive from me so I use a local spark to do maintenance on the property. I have an EICR done on a 5 yearly basis and as much as is sensible have the wiring kept up to current regs.

    Just had the 30+ year old Wylex MCB board changed for a new metalclad board with RCBo's - the old board was tired and although fully RCD protected (overhead TT supply) via a separate 30mA RCD I felt it was time to treat the tennants to a better system,

    I have had the same tennants for 16 years now, they keep the place looking very tidy, always pay the rent on time, do decorating and minor repairs, so I feel it's only right I keep my end of the bargain, put in a new boiler last year (old one was still working but huge), new kitchen going in after xmas, howdens units quartz worktops and Neff / Miele aplliances and a new bathroom in the summer.

    Keeping the place up together is a win as it preserves the value of the place and keeps the tennants happy which means they stay put, saves hunting for new occupants. Havn't put the rent up in over 10 years either, £495 pcm but again it helps preserve a good status quo.

    I don't supply ant portable appliances with plugs on, which avoids the need for PAT testing.
     

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