Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by facilities, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. Which assumes you think Corbyn is a career politician, not somebody who says what HE believes in?

    And before you get it wrong, I don't want/like Corbyn. Just able to respect his honesty.
    chippie244 likes this.
  2. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I cba to reply to longs drivel.
    Deleted member 164349 likes this.
  3. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Which also assumes , you believe Corbyn isn't a career politician. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

  4. He says what HE believes, not what he thinks you want to hear.

    Whether you like him or not, he doesn't change his comments to keep, or garner, his support.
  5. fillyboy

    fillyboy Screwfix Select

    Yeah Jack, apart from:
    Refusing to sing the national anthem only for his spokesman to say he would sing at future events.
    His non support then support for EU membership.
    Trident missiles.
    Cancellation of historic student loans debt.

    Jack mate, he's done more swerves than you and my Transit combined.
  6. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Annoyingly sometimes but you have to admire his principles, which is rare with politicians. The Beast of Bolsover is another but he's never been in a position of power.
    Deleted member 164349 likes this.
  7. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    His spokesman said he would sing according to some newspapers.
    He, unfortunately, doesn't support EU membership.
    The last two are a waste of breath

    What's May's U turn record like, she's weaker than a Southerners tea.
  8. fillyboy

    fillyboy Screwfix Select

    I don't disagree chippie, but I've never claimed otherwise, whereas Jack.....

    "Whether you like him or not, he doesn't change his comments to keep, or garner, his support."

    Oh yes he bloomin well does.
  9. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    If Corbyn came out as a remainer, did a deal with 11 tories and called a vote of no confidence he would be prime minister before summer. but he wont.
  10. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    He may well have abided his principles when a backbencher, (as ludicrous and insignificant as they were) but now he's looking for votes. That changes things.

    The limelight of leadership, although unwelcomed by the majority of normal sane folk, has done nothing but highlight the man's ineptitude.
    Only the young (they have that excuse)and the gullible actually believe he believes what he now says.
    If however you are right, that he does 'believe' the nonsense he spouts, that only makes it worse.
    Ah, well. He's got your respect and chip's money.
  11. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

  12. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    If he dropped his, wrong in my opinion, principles he would be prime minister.
    The government have no principles.
  13. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    You've since seen him for what he is and decided that's all he's getting.
    We all make mistakes.
  14. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    We certainly do, you voted for Brexit which if it happens will cost us all a lot more than £3
  15. longboat

    longboat Screwfix Select

    Yet you'd still want him as PM?
  16. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    Instead of May, of course. He has a good heart, May doesn't have a heart.
  17. chippie244

    chippie244 Super Member

    I would sooner have someone who had principles I disagreed with than someone who had no principles.
    Jord86 and Deleted member 164349 like this.
  18. joinerjohn1

    joinerjohn1 Screwfix Select

    Ahh neatly swerved as to whether he's a career politician JoT. Quick question for you to answer,, "Do you believe he's not a career politician?" (a yes or no will suffice)
    I wonder if he firmly believed there were no seats on his Virgin train journey last year (even though video evidence clearly shows him walking past many empty seats) Yep a career politician if ever there was one. Prepared to "bend the truth" and his beliefs if it will get him a few more votes... (and you trust this chap) ???
  19. It's a sorry fact of life that almost all politicians will modify their own personal viewpoint to enable them to be re-elected. Call that being a 'career politician' if you want, but that would be inaccurate.

    Very very few politicians (eg Skinner) can afford to be completely true to their core beliefs and have the luxury of sticking by them. It usually doesn't get you very far (eg Skinner).

    I would say that for most politicians who tread this delicate line in order to stay in power and achieve what they truly wish to do for the betterment of their electorate and/or country are not 'career' politicians, or can hardly even be described as truly hypocritical; this is just something they, sadly, have to do or else they'd be out, and that ain't going to serve any purpose.

    A career politician is one who will swerve and kowtow and connive and ingratiate and move the goalposts simply in order to stay in power - for their own personal benefit. Few or no actual principles to which they adhere. Damned as being a "good constituency MP".

    I can tell you that those sorts of MPs are despised by others. Having a lack of principle - regardless of which spectrum it may be on - is treated with derision.

    Is Corbyn, therefore, a 'career politician'? I'd suggest 'no', because he has modified his position on a number of issues so that he remains electable, but he wishes to be electable for a greater reason, not for his own personal gain. This is true of very many MPs on all sides.

    Is Corbyn a hypocrite? Yes, in many ways he is; he demanded that his MPs voted a certain way, imposing a 3-line whip where needed, whereas he, himself, as a back-bencher voted against his own party on countless occasions, 3-line whip or no. Is he a 'manipulator' of the electorate? Again I'd say in some ways 'yes' because his take on free tuition fees, for instance, is patently wrong and even goes against his own basic principles (it'll help the richest more than the poorest) - but it sounds good, and it attracts the yoof vote. Again, tho' the circumstances have changed; once upon a time he had the 'luxury' of being able to vote against his own party on his own fixed principles, but now - now that he hopes to gain power - he has to place t'boot on t'other foot. That's the way it is. That's the way it works. Why does it have to be this way? Because the British electorate are not very bright.

    Am I a Corbyn supporter? No, not in the least. Especially not with McDonnell as chancellor. Or with Abbot within a sniff away from a cabinet post. He is far too left-wing for me, and I fear his idealism will damage the economy.

    Would I vote for him over May*? Probably.

    Over Johnson/Gove/Mogg? Absolutely.

    *Not quite with you on the May issue, Chips, tho' I really don't know what she is. Principled? I think we'd have to say 'yes'. Who on earth would put themselves in the position she is in now?! I cannot think of a more unpleasant job - hated and distrusted by all sides. I can only conclude she is principled enough to believe she's truly doing this for the country, trying to keep it steady.

    Boris - you want a career politician? He defines it. Copper-bottomed hypocrite. Only one person matters.

  20. A career politician, to my mind, no.

    Lets compare him to 2 others. May (current leader of his opposition), Johnson (potential next leader).

    May broke all her principals in my book when she voted to remain, but became leader to achieve Brexit. 2 polar opposite beliefs. She cannot believe in both.

    Johnson, do I need to say anymore?

    Do I like and agree with Corbyn? No. But I can understand the difference between understanding what he believes in and agreeing with him.

    Does he get up each morning plotting how to get more support, or standing up for what he thinks is right?

    Too many politicians swap sides, let alone their own beliefs, just to get more support, let alone full power.

    You think I am wrong to think he believes what he says, demonstrate it by showing May, Johnson or another potential leaders principals.

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