Exploding expansion vessel

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Wilco47, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    WS wrote "I would advise anyone with one of these
    cylinders to install a quality make additional
    pressure relief valve set one bar above the pressure
    reducer valve on the hot draw-off pipe near the
    cylinder.


    Please DO NOT do this. It is against regulations.
    If fitted it would need a separate discharge pipe.


    It is not against any regs at all. They only thing you got right was that a separate discharge pipe is needed. And they allow these people into people's homes.

    Science. Facts. Sense.

    Of which all evaded you.
     
  2. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    Not a single sign of water anywhere in the cupboard,
    and the tank hasn't moved for years.


    Looks like taken in and out - moved.
     
  3. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    One of the most important points on an unvented
    cylinder is the discharge pipe sizing & installed
    correctly.Also the fact manufactures allow the
    discharge pipework to be done in plastic & connected
    to soil pipes is wrong (my opinion).


    They can be connected to a stack using a HepVO trap. I

    These apartment buidings should be designed with large steel common pipe risers in an internal vertical duct to collect the discharge safely.;)

    They should have DHW only heat banks which do not require a discharge pipe or overflow.
     
  4. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    Q. What would happen to a heat bank/thermal store
    if the safety devices were incorrectly fitted or
    blocked?? (i.e. if the feed and expansion were
    blocked).


    Fitted correctly, they are no problem and service free. A correctly fitted unvented cylinder not serviced can kaboooooooom. See the difference. Of course you don't

    There is also the discharge pipeless DHW only heat banks which are fail-safe.
     
  5. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    water systems, for your information the only system
    that has claimed a life in the UK was a VENTED
    SYSTEM
    the one where the young child was killed
    from boiling water,


    That was incorrectly fitted. Unvented cylinders have exploded. They have. Read this thread. One lifted the roof of a house.

    Oh and don't forget thermal stores can be unvented as
    well,


    The fail-safe versions are vented.
     
  6. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    The main problem with WS argument is that EXACTLY the
    same safety devices are used on gas boilers. But
    worse, any (e.g.) HEx "explosion" could result in a
    ruptured gas pipe.


    You are saying two wrongs make a right The effects of an unvented cylinder exploding is catastrophic - death situation. There are zero-risk alternatives. Get it? Of course you do not.

    So let's ban them, hot water
    (since lots of elderly and babies die from it), and
    anything else that has caused injury or damage.


    TMVs
     
  7. rome60

    rome60 New Member

    WS,I am aware manufactures state plastic pipe & Hep french letter traps can be used my point is I would never use that method.The paronoid explosion thing you constantly talk about is theory to you because you you have never installed one,as i have said many times lots of appliances will explode if installed incorrectly.
     
  8. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    No point in discussing anything with the lying
    plonker,


    What part of the two exploding cylinders (one lifted a roof) didn't you understand?

    They did explode despite your tiny mind thinking they never.
     
  9. imran_

    imran_ New Member

    Oh so now you're proposing to heat a thermal store by electicity, even if the cost is 3-4 times more expensive than gas and a whole lot less eco-friendly. Or would you still install a gas boiler that uses the same safety devices as an unvented system??

    I'm guessing your thermal stores use completely different stats to those found on unvented cylinders - your ones never fail. TMVs never fail either. An expanison pipe on a vented system has never become blocked. Ever. Basically anything you quote never fails and everything else does. Sad man.

    The most tragic thing is: I think that you do actually belive the constant prattle you speak.

    BTW what happens when your stats fail and the house is filled with skin-burning steam??
     
  10. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    The paronoid explosion thing
    you constantly talk about is theory to you


    Read back on the thread. Two unvented cylinders exploded - one lifted the roof. What didn't you understand about these explosions?

    As regards to flats DHW only heat banks are available with no discharge or overflow pipes. Get to know what is on the market and use the most advanced and fail-safe products.

    Do not be an aficionado of Ned Ludd.
     
  11. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    Oh so now you're proposing to heat a thermal store by
    electicity,


    I did? lease re-read.

    I'm guessing your thermal stores use completely
    different stats to those found on unvented cylinders
    - your ones never fail.


    You must understand the differnce between "fail" and "failsafe". You don't know the difference.

    TMVs never fail either.

    They don't explode and take down the side of a house.

    expanison pipe on a vented system has never become
    blocked.


    It have two pipes out of the cylinder - cold feed being the other.

    You are limited to changing bathrooms and hold no engineering analytical skills.
     
  12. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

  13. Captain Leaky

    Captain Leaky New Member

  14. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

  15. naughtyboy

    naughtyboy New Member

    mr water systems
    the roof lifting experience you mention
    all the information you have cut and pasted are all from a mr mark jones a fire spokesman for hampshire , none of the information can be classified as fact and at this date should only be treated as hearsay .
    further more they only guess the roof had taken off and landed back on the spot at which it would normaly be , because and i quote " all the tiles where loose "
    all the damage caused will have to be verified by a structural engineer before it becomes fact !
    now to the suposed fault ! the blame is being put down to a faulty electric hot water tank which had the water turned off and the immersion left on "it just got hotter and hotter ", there is no mention in the info that i have seen about it being unvented or otherwise
    conclusion -
    electrical fault ?
    did the immersion have a stat ?
    did it work ?
    there has also been a death and this is fact
    from a decomissioned back boiler that exploded
    source daily mail 29th oct 2008
    again this comes down to heat being applied to water

    original thread was posted on
    greenbuildingforum.co.uk
    under the name nadnerd70 and was posted 4th feb 2009 where you will also find our old friend water systems
     
  16. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    mr water systems
    the roof lifting experience you mention
    all the information you have cut and pasted are all
    from a mr mark jones a fire spokesman for hampshire ,
    none of the information can be classified as fact and
    at this date should only be treated as hearsay .


    I think the fire people knew about it as they attended. They never made it up.

    now to the suposed fault ! the blame is being put
    down to a faulty electric hot water tank which had
    the water turned off and the immersion left on "it
    just got hotter and hotter ", there is no mention in
    the info that i have seen about it being unvented or
    otherwise


    There is a picture of a steel mangled cylinder outside of the house - that is unvented. The reason it exploded was that the safety devices failed. It would not happen using an unpressurised heat bank - DHW only or integrated CH & DHW.

    conclusion -
    electrical fault ?
    did the immersion have a stat ?
    did it work ?

    there has also been a death and this is fact from a
    decomissioned back boiler that exploded
    source daily mail 29th oct 2008
    again this comes down to heat being applied to water

    Fantastic observation - "heat being applied to water". Fantastic!
     
  17. Dick Puller

    Dick Puller New Member

    Water Systems aka Dr Drivel, Big Burner etc, etc, etc.....
     
    steverod likes this.
  18. GKU

    GKU New Member

    Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z .......................... Enuff already :O
     
  19. palatine

    palatine New Member

    W.S

    Whilst you appear to answer all and sundry, perhaps you could respond to my comments on the original posting.

    Wilko47 did not report an explosion in the OP, contrary to your statement and YOU were the first person to describe what had happened as a "violent explosion".

    Until you recognise the errors in your statements, no-one will take your suggestions seriously. If you cannot give ground on statements of fact, then, you must accept that that any credibility you have is compromised.
     
  20. Water Systems

    Water Systems New Member

    Wilko47 did not report an explosion in the OP,
    contrary to your statement and YOU were the first
    person to describe what had happened as a "violent
    explosion".


    He wrote "explosion" and "violent". That better?
     

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