Fire doors

Discussion in 'Carpenters' Talk' started by John Bunyan, Aug 27, 2021.

  1. John Bunyan

    John Bunyan Member

    A customer has asked me to price up for fire doors. They have bought a house with a 2nd floor loft conversion and are bringing it up to regs. Others are doing new stairs to loft. I'm doing kitchen, doors, skirts ECT..
    Who should I liaise with regarding fire doors?
    Not familiar with this.
    35mm FD 30? Door closers? Intumescent strip in new doors?
     
  2. ginger tuffs

    ginger tuffs Screwfix Select

    You will probably need to fit fire door and frame to meet fire standards
     
    John Bunyan likes this.
  3. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    Intumescent strips fit into grooves routered into the frame, not into the door, so new frames would be favourite as ginger says above. These have to be full-on rebated linings - separate stop lats won’t do, so there’s pretty much no room for any inaccuracy = another reason why new frames are really needed. I’ve done FD30 and FD60’s into old frames and it’s a pain because you can only get the router within 6” of the top and bottom of the jambs, and the same with the head. The rest has to be done carefully with chisels and a mallet, because the tolerance of the rebate is critical to the performance of the strip. Regs also stipulate a tolerance of 3mm or less between the door and frame. You’ll also need to source fire-rated hardware as well as closers. Howdens is your best bet.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2021
    John Bunyan likes this.
  4. ginger tuffs

    ginger tuffs Screwfix Select

    Screwfix sell a good range of fire rated hardware
     
    John Bunyan likes this.
  5. stevie22

    stevie22 Screwfix Select

    Worth talking to BC. Some doors can just be upgraded which is a whole lot easier. The intumescent strips can go in the door: that's what I did with my daughters place and BC were happy
     
    John Bunyan and CGN like this.
  6. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    I was actually going to suggest that, mate. There's a lot of discrepancy on this topic - in Derbyshire (where I am) strips fitted to the door are a total no-no - local LABC reason that if a strip-fitted door is ever removed, the fire protection gets removed along with it. They say that scenario is way more likely than someone removing a frame. But you're right - talk to your local BC and get some guidance from them. They might even insist on FD60's.
     
    John Bunyan likes this.
  7. John Bunyan

    John Bunyan Member

    Thanks for all the comments. Yes I agree, leaving the casings as they are would be a lot easier. Of course we know old casings can be all over the place so fitting new doors to tight tolerances can be a pain too.
    So is it normal for the tradesmen to talk directly to the building inspector? Otherwise I'd be working on second hand information from the customer. Unless of course the BI put it in writing?
     
  8. John Bunyan

    John Bunyan Member

    Also what's the acceptable gap at bottom of door? Floors could be badly out of level as well as door casings so you can end up with a 20mm gap when closed.
     
  9. stevie22

    stevie22 Screwfix Select

    If you are just doing one element of the work then I suggest that your client needs to tell you exactly what he wants,

    One hopes he has BC on board and it's up to him to find out what's acceptable.

    Having previously checked with BC that they were happy, I used a company called Envirograf to supply my stuff. They were really helpful, advised what I needed for the doors I had and provided detailed instructions. They provided clear or white finish and if I recall correctly I spent 3 days in aggregate to do 7 doors (which included finished paint work.
     
    John Bunyan likes this.
  10. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    Normally 8-10mm above the finished flooring. If you have any more than that, you need to put down a threshold to reduce the gap. You can also reduce it further using a cold smoke seal.
     
    John Bunyan likes this.
  11. John Bunyan

    John Bunyan Member

    So the bc has said to the client.. no door closers needed, no special ironmongery, no brush strips, but 3 fire hinges, intumescent strips, FD20 doors in effect FD30.
    Existing frames have rebates for 35mm and a few have plant ons reducing the width to non standard sizes such 28 3/4" Questions are.. can you get 35mm FD30's? And is it acceptable to cut down a 2'9" to suit or plant onto a 28" to get the width needed. Or is it going to require new casings with intumescent grooves and possibly rebates for 44mm doors?
     
  12. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    John Bunyan likes this.
  13. John Bunyan

    John Bunyan Member

    Thanks for that. Forgot to add, client wanted moulded doors rather than flush/blank. Can you get them?
     
  14. John Bunyan

    John Bunyan Member

    Just seen your link and it's answered my last question. Do the lippings have to be hardwood?
     
  15. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    Not necessarily, but places like Howdens and decent timber merchants sell ready-made lippings which are invariably hardwood. Note that most of these are 44mm so they'll need planing to depth after being planted on. I usually use a palm router with a bearing-guided flush trimmer bit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2021
    John Bunyan likes this.
  16. John Bunyan

    John Bunyan Member

    Ok so the doors are ordered and they are 35mm thick. What width intumescent strip would you suggest? They need to be FD20 bc said. And the bottom of door doesn't need an intumescent does it? What happens regarding painting doors and strips/grooves? Sorry for so many questions, it's the first time I've fitted fire doors but I'm a little familiar with them from 30 years ago as a bench hand apprentice.
     
  17. John Bunyan

    John Bunyan Member

    Just downloaded some intumescent instructions so it's just the painting procedure I could do with knowing about. Also is it best to leave door long at bottom till carpets are layed then trimming to suit afterwards?
     
  18. woodbutcherbower

    woodbutcherbower Well-Known Member

    No problem at all. The usual protocol is to use either 10mm or 15mm wide strips for FD30's, and a 20mm strip for FD60's. The strips mustn't be painted - normal procedure is to paint the edges of the door first and then add the strips when it's dry. And no - you don't need a strip on the bottom. And yes - leaving the door long is always a good call when final flooring isn't yet in place. As I mentioned earlier, you're looking for a gap of 8-10mm. Hope all goes well.
     
    John Bunyan likes this.
  19. John Bunyan

    John Bunyan Member

    Ok thanks got it. I think I'll call the door manufacturer and ask if a 10mm intumescent strip is sufficient. Thanks again for the heads up.
     
  20. Jord86

    Jord86 Screwfix Select

    15mm strip for new installs, 10mm if retrofitting, I believe.
     
    John Bunyan and WillyEckerslike like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice