Fitting flush ceiling light

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Gareth Price, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. Gareth Price

    Gareth Price New Member

    Fitting ceiling light which sits flush to the plaster so existing ceiling rose needs to come off in order to attach.

    Light fixture has space for two live and two neutral, however, ceiling rose looks like this (see photo).

    Can anyone recommend the safest and most effective approach, covering off live, neutral, earth.

    If I need to electrical block some of the wires I can tuck the electrical block back up into the ceiling or there may be enough space to tuck it under the ceiling light.

    Attached Files:

  2. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    If there is space you are better off bringing all the wires inside the light fitting and doing the connection there, if its an LED fitting then this would be fine but if it has halogen type bulbs in it you risk melting the wires and connections.

    Other way is to join the wires in a junction box, make a hole in the ceiling big enough to fit through and hope the new fitting covers the hole, better still use Wagos in an enclosure as people will moan that a JB is not maintenance free shoved into the ceiling.

    Don't however just shove a bunch of connectors into the ceiling without an enclosure round them, if they work lose and spark or get hot you risk setting fire to your house. And finally note what goes where before you take the rose to bits.
  3. Bazza

    Bazza Well-Known Member

    Especially this. Mark the two browns on the left so you don't get the browns mixed up. You'll need an electrician if you do mix them up.
    Pollowick likes this.
  4. Gareth Price

    Gareth Price New Member

    Thanks. Will keep track of what’s what. It’s an LED fitting not halogen.

    The ceiling light has two live connectors and two neutral connectors. So, thoughts are ...

    The two browns (switch live) into one of the live connectors.

    The three remaining live wires into the other live connector.

    The two neutral which are together into the first neutral connector.

    The other two neutrals into second connector.

    Question then is what to do with the two earth?
  5. Bazza

    Bazza Well-Known Member

    One brown in each would be better.
    NO NO NO

    These three must go into a SEPARATE connector.
    All three must be connected together into the neutral connector(s)
    If your light does not require an earth, then the (three, yes there will be three) earth conductors must be connected together in another separate connector.
    If your light does need an earth, then they MUST be connected to the earth connector.
  6. Gareth Price

    Gareth Price New Member

    No need to shout Baz, I’m only doing research I’m not gonna take any action until I get the answer.

    So there are definitely just two earth (see picture) and I have checked inside the wall cavity there is no third earth wire.

    As mentioned, the light fitting only has four connectors so if your recommendation is to put each of the five live wires into separate connectors I’ll need to buy a different connector. Will look into.
  7. Bazza

    Bazza Well-Known Member

    OK. I will clarify.

    CAPS are where I'm just trying emphasise where you are heading in the wrong direction.

    The two browns on the left. Switched lives. They go to the live connectors on your light.

    The three blues on the right. Neutrals. They go to the neutral connectors on your light.

    The three browns in the middle are the permanent lives. They need to go TOGETHER into ONE separate connector.
    Not one connector each! And not to any of the connectors on your light.

    The earths. There will be three conductors, there's probably two inside one of those bits of green/yellow sleeving.
    They need to connect together in one separate connector, that's unless your light needs an earth.

    Is that clear?
  8. Gareth Price

    Gareth Price New Member

    Perfect, that’s exactly what I needed - a breakdown of where everything goes.
  9. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    4 earths actually, probably 2 pairs twisted together also there must be two lights off the same switch.
  10. Bazza

    Bazza Well-Known Member

    Yes you right
    4 lots of T&E
  11. Gareth Price

    Gareth Price New Member

    Thanks guys, mission accomplished.

    Had to order the wagos and wait for them to arrive but worked a treat.

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