Fitting New Single Oven

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by COYR, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. mad4kitchens

    mad4kitchens New Member

    Hi COYR,
    You've pretty much got it right, I hope you read my post to DA, in it I've explained how it should be done, but I do suggest a Part P compliant sparky should undertake this for you as it should all be checked out and tested for you and of course with it signed off ( I am aware that it now does not come under part P before I get shouted at, but you should still be given the correct paperwork at the end)
    Best of luck with it and regards
    Chris (As I get of my soap box and get a beer from the fridge);)
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  2. I need a luurrrvv smiley. I do like Mad4It :rolleyes:.

    You are - of course - absolutely right. Technically. According to the latest regs.

    Of course new regs - but the very implication that they are 'newer' - are safer than old regs.

    But that doesn't mean that work done to old regs is suddenly unsafe.

    Unless you do want to go to the extent of measuring infinitesimally small risks (yes, that was the word I was after...) which - by it's very meaning - is beyond being measured. Ergo the circle has been circled.

    :p x lots.

    (And I do like you lots too... Enjoy your beer :D)
    mad4kitchens likes this.
  3. mad4kitchens

    mad4kitchens New Member

    Hi DA, nice word, yeah I like that. I guess both of us have learned something new from each other today, But then again I'm not claiming to be a word expert :p.

    As for work done to old regs is suddenly unsafe, you are absolutely right, it does not mean that old work is unsafe, but what it does mean is that the new regs are a little more safer than the old regs. On and upwards as they say, lets make it a year where no one is killed or injured by any domestic electrics and no one's house is burned down, well here's hoping ! and I'm sure the MP Jenny Tonge won't agree with you either.

    Fun swinging handbags with you, love to do it again sometime.
    Mad4It :D
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
  4. Walter System

    Walter System Member

    Ultimately protection of the ring is the 32A mcb. The 13A fuses restrict the power of the plug-in appliances to add further protection and the prime point of misuse. Rings came about from ships. They could run a cable up the port and starboard sides for the lighting. The UK adopted them because they are cheap. Look at a CU on Germany and the USA. They tend to be vertical having far more mcb's. I saw a CU in Germany that had only double pole RCBOs. Very long but ultimate protection. Nice.

    Rings do have their advantages. I recall an office that had many computers. One ring did them all. Using radials would have taken 3 circuits with mcbs.

    Only the UK & Ireland has fuses in plugs (because we have rings). The Continent does not. I have never seen a fuse in a plug on the Continent. I was told they exist, but as rare as rocking horse poo.

    Some cookers have 40A supply. OK this has a 32A mcb.

    True that many ovens require 16A mcb's. But many do not with 13A plugs on them. It makes them appealing to penny pinching developers, renovators and cheapo kitchen fitters having all off a ring giving a cheap wiring job.

    I have had the odd fuse jut blow and when all is tested it is fine. Rare these days but common not long ago. If it does happen, a heavy integrated appliance has to come out.

    I did say "ideally"

    What I find irritating and odd in UK kitchens is the masses of ugly fused spurs on kitchen worktops for the washing machine, etc. They are just not necessary. They even put ugly cooker switches above the worktops to supply a 3kW oven and ign for a gas hob.

    They penny pinch using rings and small CUs and spend a fortune on unnecessary fused spurs and cooker switches in the kitchen. They need to stand back and reassess.

    I prefer the Continental radial approach not rings.
  5. mad4kitchens

    mad4kitchens New Member

    Walter system, really, are you for real, everything you have posted about on this page has not helped COYR with his question, if anything you've confused the guy. I really don't care about what they do abroad and I really don't care about what you prefer or that you think we are penny pinching (which is so totally wrong).

    This forum is designed to give people like COYR who have a query about whatever DIY issue they may have, to be able to ask a simple question and get a simple correct answer from an Expert.

    I have done this for him if you look back over my post to DA, so please Walter no more waffal, just the correct answer to COYR's problem would have sufficed for this thread.

  6. unphased

    unphased Screwfix Select

    Walter System: Rings for sockets were as a result of post war meetings of the then IEE. The concept may have originated from their use for lighting on ships, but primarily it was a way of keeping the amount of copper used in a circuit to minimum during a period where the need to conserve resources was paramount. This was also the period when BS1363 plug and sockets were developed .This extract is taken from Wiring Matters published by the IET:

    THE BRITISH ring final circuit system and BS 1363:
    13 A plugs, socket-outlets, connection units and adaptors plug and socket-outlet system were introduced into the UK in 1947 following many years of debate which began in June 1942 with the first
    meeting of ‘The Electrical Installations Committee’ of the IEE. This committee was formed by the Minister of Works and Planning, Lord Reith: “...with the object of securing a comprehensive and coordinated review of building techniques for the guidance of those who would be responsible for the direction and organisation of building after the war.” Part of the Terms of Reference were “to review
    existing information and practice concerning installations in buildings”.
    The committee held 22 meetings between 1942 and 1944 which resulted in the publication of ‘Post War Building Study No. 11 – Electrical Installations’ in January 1944 and the ‘Supplementary Report’ in July 1944. This study is by far the most significant process which led to the UK ring final circuit and which resulted in the development of the BS 1363 13 ampere fused, flat-pin plug and socket-outlet system by BEAMA. The Study is very detailed and covers the whole area of electrical installation, not just plugs and sockets. It makes very clear the reasoning process at the time which led to our present system of plugs and sockets.

    mad4it: :)

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