Found some horrible plumbing, comments welcome

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by BikerChris, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. BikerChris

    BikerChris Active Member

    Cheers Jimbo, that is the plan and have done temporary ones to see if it helps. I am sure the system was a bit quieter this morning but I can still hear it - I look forward to quiet heating like everyone else has!
  2. BikerChris

    BikerChris Active Member

    I do have pipes touching the underside of the floorboards :( I need to remove furniture and pull up boards in the room they are going to, to see if I can lower them at least.
  3. Heat

    Heat Screwfix Select

    Tricky to do, but you hopefully will be able to carefully trim some timber off the notches below the pipes without damaging the pipes. Try wedging the pipes up a little first so you can use a wood chisel or/and pad saw to trim timber.
    Aim to achieve all pipes to finish resting 3mm or so at least lower than top of joist. Some joists you might find are higher than the rest and notch will need deeper on that joist to allow the pipes to be low enough elsewhere on other joists.

    Pipes jammed against underneath of floorboards is one of the worst situations for terrible noise.
    You should be able to have a completely creak free heating system if you manage to get all pipes from being forced against timber.
    BikerChris likes this.
  4. Jimbo

    Jimbo Screwfix Select

  5. BikerChris

    BikerChris Active Member

    Yeah I think it will be, I will be as careful as I can, last thing I want is to create more problems.
    I'll definitely try wedging the pipes up, werent much give when I last tried, well a few were ok. Cheers for that.
    I will try to keep them away from the floor boards, thank you for that, especially if its a common cause of noise.
    I'll battle on again soon and say if I fix the problem!
    Thanks for your help again heat.

    I've got one of those already, I will definitley give it a go, cheers for that. so far there was only enough space to get some sand paper around the pipe when it goes through joists and move it backward and forward, hoping that it will shave off enough space to put some pipe insulation in there :(
    Heat likes this.
  6. BikerChris

    BikerChris Active Member

    Only an update on mine, but thought I'd show pic after I had put pipe lagging under pipes. Down side is that some pipes were already close to the underside of the floor boards, so putting insulation under pipes did raise them slightly. I cut the lagging down a bit so pipes didn't touch underside of flooring :(

    Attached Files:

    Chuck eastwood likes this.
  7. jackelliott07

    jackelliott07 Active Member

    Just an idea RE cutting the joists - have you tried a coping saw? I know it's not necessarily the right tool for the job, but with a bit of patience you could probably deepen the cut out without any risk of damaging the pipe.
    BikerChris likes this.
  8. Chuck eastwood

    Chuck eastwood New Member

    I'm fairly sure where the noise is coming from is the only ling stretch of flow and return in the second level. Boiler is outsude and is 3 years old. Problem was there with the old boiler. I also have a system link in place as I have a solid fuel boiler stove connected into the heating. Just saw your last post Chris, would it be worth while lagging the pipes as much as possible to prevent heat loss instead of just lagging to brace. While you have access like ? I have a bag of p clips ordered so I'll take up the boards brace and clip the pipes over the next few weeks
    BikerChris likes this.
  9. The Teach

    The Teach Screwfix Select

    Just need to decouple all sorry to say all pipes that can expand or the opposite.The flooring under walking weight can flex :(

    Have enlarged joist cut outs by cutting a few mm's lower with tennon saw & carefully whacking the waste out with a sharp wood chisel.

    wrapped the pipes with this type of decoupling insulation others are available and lay the same decouple insulation on top of the joists then screw down climatised quality ply floor.

    not forgetting any stuff installed needs to have properties not to spread fire or smoke :)

    diy :)
    BikerChris likes this.
  10. Heat

    Heat Screwfix Select

    Definitely best to cut the notches first a little deeper if needed, before you use a wood chisel to knock the wood slice below pipes out.
    And if the botch is tight to each side of pipe, try cutting the notch wider and this will also make it easier to avoid hitting the pipe with saw blade.
    Keep saw blade vertical and finish with level cut.
    Heating pipes are not essential to have pipe insulation on them on upper floors between joists, so don’t be trying to alter pipes to make space for insulation. Heat loss there is actually not lost as is into the building and is minimal.
    Do use a piece of damp course membrane around pipes where they rest on joist or around them where they are through drilled holes in joists, if hairfelt lagging is too heavy
    BikerChris likes this.
  11. BikerChris

    BikerChris Active Member

    That is a very good idea mate, thank you. I could use that and chisel out bits as well. i was able to use a multi tool in places, but it was nervous work

    as soon as you say the boiler is outside that might be part of your answer eh? as the pipes will defo be cold, could confirm by running heating when the summer comes?

    laggin pipes - i reckon definitely especially as they come into the building plus as much as you can. it is a real pain cos once you've shifted any furniture, removed carpet then up'd the floorboards, it would be ideal to do as much as poss in one hit. may be get everyone else out even if for just 2 days / 1 night so you are not having to run around and you can check things as well as do all that you can like checking where pipes rub against wood and so on. Laggin does not hurt though and it is pretty cheap and easy once you have access to pipes. the P clips can't hurt either and you might have the some problem i have with pipes going long distances unsupported. really best of luck to you mate

    cheers teach :) I hope you are wrong but i know decoupling might be needed, especially if they have to drop and there is not the service gap to do it :( If the pipes do come out though, i can easily enlarge holes...never more than 1/4 of the beam height of course :)

    thank you for that link mate, i did wonder about adding to the top of the would also help with me plastering as i didn't come down the wall as much as i should have in places lol

    oh yes, would not want fire to spread, would keep the heating costs down though :)

    your a star mate for coming back. that sounds like a plan.
    noted about insulation on upper floor pipes, i am just avoiding taking up flooring and regretting stuff, plus i am driven crazy with the noise in the morning but have to have the heating on early to keep the kidlets warm and all that.
    i've got some spare dpc may be that can be used instead of dpm? actually that would be a b u g g e r to fold, guess i could cut small bits and shove em in.

    Cheers again all
    Chuck eastwood likes this.
  12. Chuck eastwood

    Chuck eastwood New Member

    Thanks biker. About a year ago I ripped up my back yard and feed/return from the boiler. Replaced the full run with pre insulated pex buried about 2 foot. One sure way to count out that problem is to wait until the boiler is off and flow has stopped. If you then have the same banging on cooling contraction then the pipes need to be braced better or us pex on some runs. More work as always. All I need is a good babysitter

    Attached Files:

    BikerChris likes this.
  13. BikerChris

    BikerChris Active Member

    Well i cant help with baby sitting but it might be good to know that the normal depth of water pipes should be 750mm or deeper to avoid freezing (though you would think 2 foot/600mm is good enough that you have). I wonder if when its cold the pipes are really struggling, god worst case they could even be a bit frozen over night.

    I would like to suggest something stupid - if you didnt wanna wait til summer, get as much hot water as you can and pour it on the ground above the external pipes. give it a half hour (may be an hour) and then start up the boiler and see if its the noisy sod it normally is. if it isn't, that could help pin point...may be?

    disclaimer, this is a strange idea and i have never tried or tested it before!
    Chuck eastwood likes this.
  14. Chuck eastwood

    Chuck eastwood New Member

    Lol no suggestion is stupid but in this case with the insulation on the flow/return pipes water temp isn't an issue. Also the pipes if fitted and securecrd correctly shouldn't bang regardless of temp. I can easily isolate the outside boiler and just have the heater rad water coming from the wood burning stove. All water would begin circulating at room temp. Temp gauges on feed/return are generally at 20 degrees before firing it up and I'll still have the same banging upstairs
  15. BikerChris

    BikerChris Active Member

    oh i dunno, it was pretty high up there in the stupidmeter :) ah well it was worth a suggestion but like you say, it is not going to be the cause.

    may be try doing the things I mentioned before, be interesting to know the outcome - and a relief for you!

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