Freeze pipe on a bend?

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Loosenut, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Loosenut

    Loosenut New Member

    Hi all,
    I may be a bit out of my depth here, so may have to just call a proper plumber, but anyway, I'll ask..

    Having spent a day smashing concrete and digging trying to find where a water feed is coming from in the outside loo at my dad's house (we tried the house, the street and the neighbours), he suddenly remembers there's a tap out in the back yard that he covered with a big plant pot, cos the lid went missing years ago!

    Anyway, the tap is busted, I just have a shaft left, which I don't want to try to force, because its attached to lead pipe. All I want to do really is shut it off, either by capping it off, or cutting in a new tap after the old one.
    Thing is, there isn't much pipe to work with and the only bit I can access to freeze is bent. Does a freeze blanket work on bent pipe?
     

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  2. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Try your Water board they might replace lead pipe free of charge under their scheme, plus it's their stopcock..

    Old lead pipe can be a right barsteward, start meddlling with it & it then starts leaking elsewhere.
     
    Loosenut likes this.
  3. Loosenut

    Loosenut New Member

    Thanks, I suppose there's nothing to lose in calling them.

    Although I was told that if its within the boundaries of the house, its not their responsibility.

    Cheers
     
  4. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    You have a stopcock in your house which is your responsibility, then you have a street stopcock which maybe in pavement outside your property or in footpath around your house, as it is here by my front door & waterboard replaced it FOC has it was seized solid & leaking.
    But, some waterboards consider a stopcock inside your boundary is your responsibility.

    As you have lead,then look into lead replacement, worth doing I say, some water firms alllow you supply pipe 25mm MDPE maximum size, others 32mm MDPE pipe, go for the largest allowed,will see increased flow rate ltrs/min.:)
    If it is your responsibility then run MDPE to road & waterboard will connect it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
    ramseyman likes this.
  5. Pollowick

    Pollowick Screwfix Select

    It can be a minefield, so nothing to lose by calling them.
     
    KIAB likes this.
  6. Loosenut

    Loosenut New Member

    Ah no, this one is out in the back yard.

    The outside stop valve is actually slap in the middle of the front lawn. That does also needs replacing, because it let by a trickle. I will deal with that later, but that one is not an issue for me right now.

    He has 2 pipes in the outside loo, 1 copper which fed the cistern and another lead, which just sticks out of the ground and is capped off. No idea why that lead one is even there, it was like that when we moved in, in 1976. Both pipes are live, but they're not connected to the outside valve, so this one in the back yard must be the valve for them, or at least I hope so!
    But as it is on his property, it's his responsibility no? Although technically, I guess that means it is still a separate outside valve, despite it's actual location?
     
  7. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Certianly can be, some rules changed a few years ago.

    But, less lead pipe the better things will be.:)
     
  8. Pollowick

    Pollowick Screwfix Select



    And some consider pipes outside your boundary that run 50 metres under neighbouring land to be yours too!
     
  9. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Don't tell me, had identical grief, years ago with that, ended up having to lay about 70 metres of 32mm MDPE.:rolleyes:
     
  10. Loosenut

    Loosenut New Member

    The thing with the lead pipe is, it looks like it goes all the way along the back yard and around the side of the house and, it is T'd off to this vavle, and carrys on toward next door, so if I look to replace the lead, I'll have to dig up the back yard and smash up the conservatory floor aswell.
    If you look at the photo in the 1st post, I'm facing the back door of the house as I took it. So that's the lead pipe coming from the right, Ts off and goes under the soil pipe and onto that valve, which then connects to a copper pipe.

    I have to admit, I'm a bit baffled about the lead pipe, because after T-ing off to that valve, it continues off to the left. I was hoping I could just turn that tap off and see if it switched off both the lead and the copper pipes in the outside loo, but now, I don't actually know.
     
  11. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    No need to smash up conservatory floor, just need to think out a new layout to bypass & replace all the lead.

    My last place had lead pipe every where, feed to kitchen, outside bog, shed, & a few other feeds to places unknown.
    I just ran new mdpe pipe from stop cock in path to kitchen & then tee off to bog, no one complained about lost of supply, which was a relief.:)
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  12. The Teach

    The Teach Screwfix Select

    the shaft to the stop cock could be turned enough to allow the fitting of a new stopcock,then turn on the old stop cock.

    did one last week in a water filled pit :mad: .you will need a very good gripping spanner to turn the shaft,i only use channel lock products (usa imports) with parallel jaws 20171103_095722.jpg
    I,wire brush top around the shaft/stuffing nut.
    2,spray wd40 around the shaft.
    3,have a cup of tea.(wd40 soak time)
    4,slightly loosen the stuffing nut.
    5,with gripping spanner.very gently turn the shaft anti clockwise.
    6,now turn shaft clockwise but dont over tighten it down.It will gradually close enough to fit an additional stopcock.
    7,turn shaft anti clockwise back on.
     
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  13. Loosenut

    Loosenut New Member

    Thanks for that. I did actually try spraying WD40 yesterday, but I didn't think to loosen it first. Will give that a go and let you know hnow I get on.

    I can actually have a practice on the other tap in the loo, its in the same condition. At least if that breaks, I got enough pipe there to cut and slap a cap on.
    Cheers!
     
  14. The Teach

    The Teach Screwfix Select

    The secret idea is to give a seized item a quick turn in the opposite direction using decent tools.

    It works.
     
  15. Loosenut

    Loosenut New Member

    Thanks mate, I tried it and it sort of worked.

    After a good soaking in WD40 and a nice cup of tea, I put a small stilson on it and it loosened without too much bother, but however much I tighten it now, the water still flows at full pelt.
    This is on the tap above ground in the toilet, but it is exactly the same as the one in the back yard.

    I do know that both of them are what was already there in 1976. That photo I use here would be my dad's company logo if he were still building today! :D

    I gotta be honest, I'm not confident enough to make any attempt at the one underground in the back yard, as it is connected to lead one side and copper the other. I think I'll call the water board and see if they can do anything, or at least tell me which pipe is which. I guess I can always put an Aladdin in the copper pipe side, as long as that valve is actually what is supplying the pipes in the outside loo.

    Thanks for the tips guys, I learned something new today!
     
  16. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

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  17. Loosenut

    Loosenut New Member

    Great, thanks Kiab!
     
  18. The Teach

    The Teach Screwfix Select

    You can hire a rothenberger freeze master electric machine from HSS use both clamps.

    Owned C02 rothengerger professional freeze kits(hired co2 bottles) over the years,its an excellent freezing system.can freeze a 22mm pipe during summer in around 20 minutes.winter 10 minutes.

    Love rothenberger :)
     
  19. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member

    Well, the Rothenberger Eco freeze was the biggest pile sh** invented, hired one, the rubbish decided to defrost itself, flooded the basement,( I'm not the only peep to have problems with it) yet my old Freeze Master on other stop cock was on continually for about 10 hours without a problem.
     
  20. The Teach

    The Teach Screwfix Select

    This is the current HSS freeze machine 240v . it works well.https://www.hss.com/hire/p/pipe-freezer-12-42mm-240v

    CO2 is a more professional kit,if you dont mind humping 4 foot CO2 cylinders around,it freezes very quick and made me a lot of cash !

    Sold on my freezing equipment and contacts a few years ago,the new owner is a contractor and has business throughout the Uk and is also looking to expand (no pun) for franchise around northern europe and Uk coastal areas.All large pipework. Easy money :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017

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