Front door sensor light

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Douglas Ingram, Oct 15, 2021.

  1. Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram New Member

    I want to add a sensor light above my front door, that is enclosed, and was hoping to feed off the hallway ceiling light as that’s the closet electrical point. I don’t want the sensor to have a switch but I don’t think I can just cut the hallway ceiling cable and join up as I think when the hallway light is switched off, the sensor light would not work. Is there such a thing as a ‘loop’ junction box that I need to use? I will connect all this under the floorboard in the bedroom above.
     
  2. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    Do you mean a dusk til dawn sensor or do you mean a PIR that switches on and off when it detects motion?
     
  3. Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram New Member

    PIR that switches off and on when it detects motion.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Ind spark

    Ind spark Active Member

    The hallway light might have a permanent supply.
    If so you can just take the supply off the hallway light fitting, no need for a junction box.
     
  5. Fusebox Wales

    Fusebox Wales Member

    Depending on how your lighting circuit is wired, there might be a permanently live feed inside you hallway light fitting. Ideally you should be able to connect your new cable to the permanently live terminals in the hallway light, avoiding junction boxes if at all possible.

    If you do have to cut into a cable to take a live feed off, use a WAGO box with WAGO connectors as they are maintenance free and do not need to be accessed in the future.

    https://www.fuseboxwales.net/
     
  6. Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram New Member

    UPDATE! My light switch in the downstairs hallway is a DBL switch that switches the upstairs and downstairs hallway lights on. I have cut into the hallway ceiling light cable now under the bedroom floor boards and joint all three bits of cable up now and the sensor light will only work if I have the downstairs hallway light switched on so, I need some connection box that allows me to just feed the electric off the hallway way ceiling light and obviously my other lights work as before. I’m sure the normal thing to do is to run the sensor cable down to the hallway switch to take the electrical from there, but the floorboards in the bedroom are all sealed and I’ve managed to get one up to access the hallway ceiling cable.
     
  7. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    You obviously have cut into a cable with a switched conductor. You need to find a permanent LIVE and NEUTRAL. You probably will not find it at a switch.
    But post a picture of the wiring at the switch and we can advise if there might be a suitable supply there.
     
  8. Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram New Member

    ANOTHER UPDATE!!!!!! This has turned into a bigger job that I thought would be so simple. Basically, I thought there would be a connector that would leave the hallway lights working as normal and have a loop off that would give my new sensor light a permeant supply of electric and they would all work independently.

    As I previously said, I’ve cut the ceiling cable that feed into the hallway rose and joined the now three wires ends up together but the outside sensor light will only work if the downstairs light is switched on. There is just this one single light cable under the floorboards for the hallway rose that comes from somewhere else and I can't lift anymore boards as they're all sealed and polished and the single one I did, to give me this access, will be under the bed.

    So, another question is, there is a dbl plug socket nearby and I'm wondering if I can cut that and join my sensor light cable to it? (I'm confused about the watt size and wasn't sure if you can mix wall socket and ceiling light cables) This pic is the hallway light, and the sensor light is outside the frosted glass and the wiring is upstairs in the bedroom.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Screwfix Select

    You could spur off a socket for a light but you would need to include a FCU (fused connection unit).
     
  10. sparky steve

    sparky steve Screwfix Select

    If you choose to abandon connecting to your lighting circuit. And go with @robertpstubbs suggestion? This diagram may help.
    Good luck with your project:) 136C9112-54C1-4249-998C-1259E600B4E5.jpeg
     
  11. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    A picture of your light in the hallway doesnt show anything other than a light hung in the hallway. Take a picture of the wiring that you have cut above the light, This may be a lot simpler than going into a socket. There should be a feed above the light that you can tap into and you have just gone into the wrong feed. Also looks like the switch is dead opposite to the light in your pic so the feed is somewhere very near to where you have lifted the board
     
  12. Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram New Member

    This is the cable that is single and feeds into the ceiling light. There are no other cables nearby. You can see I have now cut it and joined up the sensor cable, temporarily,
    to see if this work before i enclose it in a protection box but as said, it will only work if the ceiling light is switched on. IMG_0993.jpg
     
  13. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    You only have a switched live and neutral going to the the lamp. Do you have a picture of the wiring at the switch?
     
  14. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    A couple of things here, first you need to put a wago box on instead of those connector blocs, even a normal 20A jb is much better than that. OK so that out of the way have you given a light tug onto the cable to see if there is a jb attached to the wire nearby. There is definately a JB somewhere which will not be far away and I do not think the feed will go to the switch, but if it does you should see the switch wire running down the wall somewhere very close, next couple of joists along possibly. If you stick your phone under the joists and take some pics you may see the other cables nearby
     
  15. Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram New Member

    yes, I'm going to use a Wago box as I’m only making sure this works OK first. As you can see from the two pics running away from the ceiling rose there is nothing that will show if they're joining up in a junction. As the cable is running towards the bedroom light switch, I thought maybe the cable could be running towards that, but I removed it and it's a single cable. Also, you can see the floor is sealed and polished and I can't break anymore boards up. I'm guessing there could be a junction somewhere underneath the hallway now where I see there is a cut in the FB close to the bedroom door, but the FB continues under the other bedroom stud wall!! :-(
     

    Attached Files:

  16. robertpstubbs

    robertpstubbs Screwfix Select

    Is the bedroom upstairs? I would expect the bedroom light wiring to be above the bedroom.

    Normally cabling for downstairs lighting will be in the downstairs ceiling / upstairs floor space with loops down to switches, and cabling for upstairs lighting will be in the loft with loops down to the switches.
     
  17. bright_Spark

    bright_Spark Screwfix Select

    OK a better picture now of what you have to work with, under the floor looks pretty clear to drag a new cable through so there is a glimmer of hope, not being able to take any more boards up is a real trial as there is usualy no other option available to you. the living room light must have a loose board above it which unfortunately is usually a pain and under the bed, have you lifted this one yet?
     
  18. Douglas Ingram

    Douglas Ingram New Member


    Ok, thanks so far. To be continued!!
     

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