Get pipes flush with wall?

Discussion in 'Builders' Talk' started by Suzan Aydin, Jan 1, 2021.

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  1. Suzan Aydin

    Suzan Aydin Member

    Hi all,

    so we finished the wet room but sadly didn’t get time to do it the stud wall way to hide pipes and had to do it the dot and dab way and have pipes put in a conduit of sorts.

    the conduit part we haven’t done yet but I’ve got a question. We are going to be hooking up a ceiling fed shower, but it seems that the joist at the end is in the way. It’s an old joist... and isn’t holding or supporting anything (the lighting looking 6x2s are the actually joists that are bearing.

    what’s the best way to get these pipes as flush to the wall/ceiling as possible? They are coming from the bottom right of the bathroom.

    we are going to also change the pipes from flex to rigid PB.

    see below for pictures.

    https://ibb.co/gtK8gq3

    https://ibb.co/MRzYrYG

    ceiling fed shower will be 3 tiles away from the room (centre of room) so needs to tee off of existing pipes
     
  2. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    With the ceiling exposed as per picture 1. and hot/cold supplies easily accessible, surely you can extend pipes through joists and then drop down vertically exactly where you need them ?

    Usual way for exposed pipework would be chrome pipe and chrome school board clips - both of which available from SF

    Or have I misunderstood something ?
     
    Suzan Aydin likes this.
  3. Suzan Aydin

    Suzan Aydin Member

    Hey Dave :),

    maybe I’m being a pleb - when you say through joist, you don’t mean like drill through them do you?

    the pipes need to be flush with the wall no? and the joist is in the way. if you look at this picture, would have thought where the red Mark is is where the pipes need to come from

    https://ibb.co/Ks9GGcL
     
  4. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    Oh yep, clearer now (to me) with the above, close up picture :)

    So, the old, offending joist that's right next to wall - 'It’s an old joist... and isn’t holding or supporting anything (the lighting looking 6x2s are the actually joists that are bearing' - (your words)
    Either notch it out to get pipes close to wall (depending if dropping down in conduit or using pipe clips) or simply cut through the middle and pull down to fully remove joist - if really just floating up there

    Fix roofing batten or similar around edge of room to support edge of plaster board, can easily work around 2x15mm pipes dropping down
     
    Suzan Aydin likes this.
  5. Suzan Aydin

    Suzan Aydin Member

    Sounds like a good shout. So I can either notch it or cut it straight through and take a chunk out. I’m quite sure that joist is literally doing nothing but to be safe I’ll notch it probably.

    In terms of boxing the pipes (for the corner), do you recommend any boxing like pvc or timber?
     
  6. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    Hard to tell from the picture the angles, gap size and heights of that old joist and pipes, etc, and don't know what pipes your coming off for hot and cold supplies but looks like you could T Off pipes, run over top of joist and drop down tiled wall ? But difficult to tell from a photo

    Could notch out as I said where needed or if sure joist is doing nothing, then notch can be any size to make an easier job and improve access
    Again, can't tell, is old joist level with new ones as need a fixing for edge of plasterboard ?

    Don't get about boxing for pipework (for the corner) as surely you would drop pipes down vertically exactly where needed ?
    Then its either pipe conduit or chrome pipe, clips and all exposed

    Why are you boxing pipes in a corner ? (maybe its me) :)
     
    Suzan Aydin likes this.
  7. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    Why not drop the ceiling down a few inches to accomodate the pipes? I would be wary of cutting out any notches in that beam.
     
  8. Suzan Aydin

    Suzan Aydin Member

    Pipes are veering to the right to go to the toilet and through to the kitchen. This was originally how the pipe work was but when everything was stripped down and rebuilt, there was sadly no time to do a stud to hide it all.

    maybe this is a better picture

    https://ibb.co/7QPvMTT
     
  9. Suzan Aydin

    Suzan Aydin Member

    Sounds costly to do tbh... I’ve not heard it’s cheap to lower a ceiling and I wouldn’t even know where to start..
     
  10. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    Ok, right, I’m beginning to get the full picture of the pipework now ........ albeit it slowly !

    So this picture shows the current layout as in your 2nd picture of opening post - although the plastic pipe is temporary

    So you need to run on tile surface 3 separate services;

    Shower supply
    Toilet supply
    Supply to kitchen

    What a shame but ,,,,,, it’s done so gotta move forward now and solve the problem. No point in mulling over the whys and what ifs ...... (but, what a shame :()

    It’s a wet room I understand so any pipe boxing needs to be waterproof and durable and not need constant maintenance to look good. Simply ply construction and paint probably not the best option here

    Can use plastic pipe conduit and various adaptors / bends / to get pipes where needed. Not gonna look brilliant but it’s an option

    Still think best way forward is to plumb the lot in chrome pipe, chrome clips, chrome compression fittings, etc

    Just plan the layout in the most practical and best cosmetically looking way and ensure all pipes are run dead level / vertical / and pipe clips are evenly spaced

    With the room fully tiled and looking good, you must realise you have limited options at this stage ?
     
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  11. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    As for Kools suggestion on lowering the ceiling, that’s also an option but not convinced as to how much benefit you will gain from this

    As to being costly, well yes, starting from scratch then maybe but, looking at your pictures - you don’t have a ceiling currently !

    The new joists installed have set the level for the plasterboards to be attached to but if you wanted to lower the ceiling, just screw battens to joists at whatever height works for you. Doesn’t need to be beefy structural timbers, just use roofing batten, cheap at 5m lengths and screw to joists. These are only giving a fixing for PB so don’t need to over-engineer

    But anyway, up to you to make the decision

    Pipes going to kitchen, do these have to run through wet room or could they continue in ceiling void and drop down into kitchen, possibly partially concealed inside a wall unit or boxed into a corner ?
     
    Suzan Aydin and koolpc like this.
  12. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    Agree with above. Its only a matter of attaching extra battens to existing timbers to bring ceiling down a couple of inches or so.
     
  13. Suzan Aydin

    Suzan Aydin Member

    Thanks for all the advice and your explanations Dave.

    it is a shame... but sadly with my MIL being disabled and us moving in ASAP and the guys well were gonna do the wet room getting covid it was all a bit mad!

    I think how it currently is would be a bit difficult to get the pipes to continue through the ceiling to the kitchen... it could be an option but a last resort one.

    thinking about it, even if we lowered the ceiling, it still won’t make a difference because the fitting that is used for the ceiling fed shower is about 15cm high (from ceiling rose) so you’d have to lower the ceiling at least 15cm which is too much!

    only option is to drill through the joist.... I need to really confirm if it is holding anything, but the darker joists (I.e the ones in the way) are not bearing any weight for the floor upstairs... they seem to be the old 4x2s and the new 6x2s are holding the floor upstairs...
     
  14. koolpc

    koolpc Super Member

    15cm is tiny in the grand scheme of things. Its nothing.
     
  15. toolz

    toolz Member

    Would those clips be suitable for the setup in this photo? https://ibb.co/R37tyGg
     
  16. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    You need to measure distance between pipes and wall but usually a little flex in the pipes - but don’t go crazy ! Also spacing between pipes may need adjusting

    Varuous pipe clips available for externally mounted pipes when looks are important

    Also look at;
    Double Munsen Rings
    Double Saddle Clips

    All available in a variety of finished (guess your looking at chrome)

    Saddle clips you will need to put a ‘stand off’ behind them as they sit flush on wall surface, but easy enough

    Munsen rings have adjustable depth

    Double school board clips ? Not sure if these exist ?

    Only tricky part is fixing above in place with pipes already in situ

    Usually you would mark pipe position on wall and fix clips first but may be able to work around it - good luck
     
    toolz likes this.
  17. Suzan Aydin

    Suzan Aydin Member

    Just spoke to a carpenter and he said tbh those joists are ceiling joists and would only be holding plasterboard, so drilling through and making a hole wouldn’t be a problem. Is that true? I don’t believe that joist is supporting the upstairs floor or roof or anything tbh...
     
  18. Suzan Aydin

    Suzan Aydin Member

  19. DIYDave.

    DIYDave. Screwfix Select

    None of us can say for sure what exactly the joists are supporting and what, if anything the old joists are doing compared to the new ones. It’s Impossible over a forum via a thumbnail photo

    I’m especially not going to make a call as it’s not my house and I’m diy only (although I stand by my previous advice given)

    Any joists can be drilled through for pipes and cables, be it ceiling or floor joists and this will be apparent when you lift floors around the house - surely you’ve come across this before ?

    But, yes, there’s guidelines as to where and what size joists can be drilled and/or notched out so as not to compromise their strength

    I have a rough idea but again, I’m not confident enough to state and don’t wish to offer poor advice - Google or another forum member perhaps

    You seem confident that the old joist next to wall, and the one that is causing access issues is doing nothing support wise ?

    If your sure (?), then notch out as required

    Other joists, check guidelines and drill away for pipes and drop down wall exactly where needed

    Usual way to drill through joists is with a right angled drill, made for this job. Unlikely you own one ? Can either hire one or buy a right angled chuck adaptor

    Other way is standard drill, 300mm spade bit and drill through at a shallow angle

    It’s all possible

    You’ve got no option other than to surface mount pipes so plan the runs for practicality and neatness and make the decision

    Ceiling is fully exposed, ie, not boarded so easy access and you can exactly see best path for pipe runs. Pipes with bends/fittings/copper/plastic/etc/ can be adapted to wherever you need them - it’s really not a problem

    Should be easy enough but no idea if your diy’ing this or using a pro plumber ?
     
    Suzan Aydin likes this.
  20. Suzan Aydin

    Suzan Aydin Member

    True true. No doing it ourselves. I think there’s something uneasy about drilling through that joist, even though I’m pretty sure it’s doing nothing.

    I might go with a bottom fed shower, one of the electric Miras..
     

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