Getting paid

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by peter palmer, Dec 22, 2019.

  1. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    I don't know what more we can do to get paid on time other than get the money upfront, its getting ridiculous now. I know its Christmas but Sainsbury or Asda won't let you walk out of the shop with the shopping saying they'll pop back next week to pay.

    3 examples from recently,

    first one - we've done a big job for a builder who we've worked for before and always struggled to get the money off him but you always get it eventually. This time we were careful and every time it got to a £1000 we would stop work until he paid us, once the customer had to pay us to carry on because it was holding the job up but I don't care where the money comes from. Obviously the last £1000 is outstanding and he won't even pick up the phone now, ignores all calls and texts, we've been round to his house and his wife has just shrugged her shoulders, we've even text him to expect a court claim if he doesn't pay up, still nothing and I believe he is taking his whole family on holiday for Christmas on Monday. The only time he has been in contact with us recently is for him to ask us to start another job - no chance. We certainly would never work for him again so I'm in favour of going straight to the bankruptcy route, it will cost me £750 but will severely **** him up and that's what I wan't now more than the money, its about time someone taught him a lesson.

    Second one, For years and years we have done work for a company and used to drop an invoice in to the office, we got paid within two weeks, the last one we dropped in a month ago didn't get paid and when we rang up they said sorry payment terms are now 90 days. That's a **** take anyway because I wouldn't have done the job if I'd have known but secondly the job was for private work at the directors house and was nothing to do with the company anyway, that is definitely taking the michael.

    Thirdly my over the road neighbour has been building and extension for 3 years, I first fixed it in 2016 and now all of a sudden it needs second fixing straight away, I told him I was really busy and didn't have time at the moment but he gave me the sob story of an ill mother, that sort of thing. So over the last couple of weeks I've been doing things when I've got a spare half a day or so, its not something I wanted to do either, imagine trying to work out what you have done from 3 years ago. Anyway I've done it really cheap for him, I reckon it took the best part of 4 days worth of work and I've asked him for £300. That was on Thursday and since then absolutely no contact from him. Can you believe he literally lives 50 feet from me and he hasn't been round, what the **** is wrong with people.

    Not everyone is like this I'll admit, there are a few that actually ring us and say have you worked the price out yet I've got cash I'll drop off at your door and never even question the price. Its just that there seems to be more and more idiots that have the bare faced cheek to think they can get away with it nowadays, you used to be able to spot a chancer from a mile away, now you just have to take a punt on someone, I really think its about time these people were put back in their place good and proper.
     
    Mancone likes this.
  2. KIAB

    KIAB Super Member


    Bankruptcy route.

    I like your style,sort of thing I would do,sadly it's sometimes the only way to get results.:)
     
  3. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    I learned the hard way on this, few years ago had similar issues. I got my solicitor to draw up terms and conditions of sale which are printed on the reverse of my invoices, the standard payment time is 28 days. You can't legally make a shorter payment time than that (they can still string it out to 28 days)

    The purchaser cannot dictate the payment time, that is set by the supplier, me, and as 28 days is considered standard then no one can object.

    I have an agreement with my bank to factor outstanding invoices, if any go over and it looks like there is trouble (some go over because the client is slow, like the council, and I know they will pay, so I let it be) I make a polite request for payment by a second red invoice labelled "Overdue, Please Remit, invoice will be factored in 7 days"

    If not paid I call up my business account manager at the bank and he buys the invoice, I normally get 90% of it's value sometimes a little less immediately, then the debt is out of my hands, the client owes the bank not me and they chase the money, add interest and charges etc, very aggressively. I've had calls from late payers asking why they are getting letters from the bank, all I can say is he bank purchased the debt, you owe them now! - very satisfying
     
  4. masterdiy

    masterdiy Screwfix Select

    I can only suggest an upfront payment before work starts to cover material costs.
    Thereafter a weekly invoice, & final few quid when completion.
    If you have too many of these (first one - we've done a big job for a builder) why bother with them in the future.

    Just say your terms are 50% upfront followed by 25% & final 25% upon completion.

    Carpet man last week took my order, I offered a half payment, he said no, just pay after fitting.
    Day he fitted the carpet we were pleased & paid bacs same day.
     
  5. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    Do all banks do this ? Or is this just a special arrangement with yours, that's a really good system
     
    KIAB likes this.
  6. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Lloyds, HSBC, NatWest all do, there are also some financial services companies who do it, there are comparison sites for factoring, but best just to talk to your bank manager, you have to have a business account.
     
    KIAB likes this.
  7. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    Neighbour still hasn't been across, I've not contacted him yet, why should I have to chase him? He was supposed to drop the money off on Friday and I can see him messing about in the garden today. It beggars belief that I can do him a favour and get the job done for him, charge him peanuts and then for him to ignore me hoping I won't have the balls to confront him. I feel like marching over and punching him in the face.

    The only saving grace I've got is I haven't signed any of the above jobs off yet and even if I do get the money I don't think II'll bother, let them sort it out when they want a completion cert for the build. **** em.
     
  8. Philip Hyde

    Philip Hyde Screwfix Select

    Im on 90 days with pretty much all of my customers. All big companies and will just get someone else to do the job if your not happy with the terms. I just add a bit extra on it to compensate for it. Im only on my own so not a big business Just have to budget for it
     
  9. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    That's fine if you expect it and agree to it, we've been on 60 days before now with a company and they paid on the dot on the 60th day, its when you are getting the runaround from someone it drives you insane. Imagine getting told to go to their house after work to pick up a grand, you sit in rush hour traffic on the M60 for half an hour, when you finally get there he says oh did you not get the (none existent) text saying he was going to transfer it into our bank later that evening which then never arrives.

    Its the lies and the deceit that wind me up, if someone walked out of Asda with a full trolley trying to avoid payment they would fully expect a security guard to tackle them to the ground, why do they think its so easy to avoid paying a self employed tradesman? The internet if full of stories of self employed people being had over.
     
  10. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Tried that tactic once, they reported me to the NICEIC and I got a bo**ocking, apparently we can't withold certification for non payment, same applies to all CPC schemes
     
  11. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    Totally agree I hate asking for money when a job is finished, a customer should pay up its like they getting the job on TIC, send your neighbour a Xmas card with a reminder in it the ungrateful T##T
     
  12. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Screwfix Select

    Had a few companies ring me about any unpaid debts but don't trust them, will ask my bank Santander if they do it
     
  13. jonathanc

    jonathanc Guest

    On the first case just go via small claims court: won’t cost you 750 quid and you can do it yourself in a half hour
     
  14. peter palmer

    peter palmer Screwfix Select

    I've spoken to a couple of people today whilst out and about and everyone's consensus is the same as on here, it is the norm to have to chase payments if you wan't paying. Several people in the pub said they never pay an invoice when its sent by a plumber or joiner etc and wait until the tradesman chases it up, they class it as the normal thing to do, yet they fully expect the same tradesman to drop everything and run to them if they have something urgent.

    It never used to be like this years ago, its this new age self entitlement that's so prevalent everywhere you go now. Big firms are even worse, they push the contractors to the limits hoping they go bust so don't have to pay therm at all, the behaviour towards all tradesmen now is utterly despicable. In 10 years time there won't be any decent ones left and all these idiots screwing us over now will be moaning they cant get anyone at all soon.

    Can't wait to be retired and sit back and watch Pimlico get 100% of the work at £200 an hour.
     
    Draetsir and Jord86 like this.
  15. Bogle Crag

    Bogle Crag Screwfix Select

    To be fair all the big firms I have worked for paid up quickly, as do local authorities, worst payers I have encountered are pub landlords
     
  16. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    I thought you need a signed contract with customer before you can go to court. Law changed a few years ago. Word of mouth or hand shake means nothing
     
  17. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    You are correct Wayners, if you look up the bankruptcy procedure you have to be able to prove the money was owed. That is why all the bigger companies require either a signed acceptance of a quote (the terms printed on the back of the quote will state that accepting the quote constitutes accepting the terms, or a written purchase order from the customer - invoice that you sent is no good if you can't prove the work or goods were ordered in the first place.
     
  18. jonathanc

    jonathanc Guest

    no. Verbal contacts are legally binding. See here. https://saracenssolicitors.co.uk/commercial-litigation/is-a-verbal-contract-a-valid-contract


    P
    roblem is proving the precise terms. Having said that. Showing work has been done and no dispute over amount of invoice is pretty clear that a contract exists and the price
     
  19. baldelectrician.com

    baldelectrician.com Well-Known Member

    first one - we've done a big job for a builder who we've worked for before and always struggled to get the money off him but you always get it eventually. This time we were careful and every time it got to a £1000 we would stop work until he paid us, once the customer had to pay us to carry on because it was holding the job up but I don't care where the money comes from. Obviously the last £1000 is outstanding and he won't even pick up the phone now, ignores all calls and texts, we've been round to his house and his wife has just shrugged her shoulders, we've even text him to expect a court claim if he doesn't pay up, still nothing and I believe he is taking his whole family on holiday for Christmas on Monday. The only time he has been in contact with us recently is for him to ask us to start another job - no chance. We certainly would never work for him again so I'm in favour of going straight to the bankruptcy route, it will cost me £750 but will severely **** him up and that's what I wan't now more than the money, its about time someone taught him a lesson.

    I make it policy NOT to do work for builders, there is always hassle (drawings at the start do not match reality)
    In these instances I either walk away or deal with the client direct


    Second one, For years and years we have done work for a company and used to drop an invoice in to the office, we got paid within two weeks, the last one we dropped in a month ago didn't get paid and when we rang up they said sorry payment terms are now 90 days. That's a **** take anyway because I wouldn't have done the job if I'd have known but secondly the job was for private work at the directors house and was nothing to do with the company anyway, that is definitely taking the michael.

    Don't work for people who don't pay- during initial call I ask how quick they pay and if they say anything over 7 days then I politely decline the work. Before they get through they are told calls are recorded so this helps proving a contract exists.

    Thirdly my over the road neighbour has been building and extension for 3 years, I first fixed it in 2016 and now all of a sudden it needs second fixing straight away, I told him I was really busy and didn't have time at the moment but he gave me the sob story of an ill mother, that sort of thing. So over the last couple of weeks I've been doing things when I've got a spare half a day or so, its not something I wanted to do either, imagine trying to work out what you have done from 3 years ago. Anyway I've done it really cheap for him, I reckon it took the best part of 4 days worth of work and I've asked him for £300. That was on Thursday and since then absolutely no contact from him. Can you believe he literally lives 50 feet from me and he hasn't been round, what the **** is wrong with people.

    You are running a business- made this mistake at the start
    Now I charge all clients the same cost, it does not matter if they are the next street or the next town - the materials are not any cheaper.
    I make an exception for friends etc.
     
  20. Wayners

    Wayners Screwfix Select

    As above.
    I always give written estimates and bills. Some free easy to use online if your not able to make your own.

    https://www.invoicesimple.com/

    Just consider 1 in 10 people are out to con you or take advantage and consider this when taking on jobs. Promise you all sorts Inc future work then use someone else when they owe you money.
    Theses people are more common in our ducking and diving trade
     

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