Getting work checked and certified

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Chris db, Jan 4, 2022.

  1. Chris db

    Chris db New Member

    Hi

    Can anyone give advise on finding a sparx who will check and sign off work. I want to add a new circuit from the CU in my garage to power a socket about 2 metres away in the garage, all running through plastic surface mounted trunking with 2.5mm cable. There is a space for more MCBs and the CU is a dual type with RCD an non-RCD protected circuits. I feel very confident about doing this myself but for the regs I would like to get an electrician to check and then connect it up to the CU for me.

    I have found in the past that although the advise is to get your work checked, electricians don't seem keen on doing these jobs unless they do the work themselves.

    I've posted on some of the quote sites but have got no responses. Any ideas or advice? Just for info, the reason for the new circuit and socket is to have a dedicated supply for a home EV charger fitted with 13 amp plug.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Hans_25

    Hans_25 Screwfix Select

    Sparks won't sign off other peoples work, as signing off is for design, installation and test.

    Best bet is to engage with a spark who you can work with, you are essentially working under him and to his rules.
     
  3. Chris db

    Chris db New Member

    Thanks Hans_25, I understand, I will give that a try.
     
  4. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    There is only one option for a 'sparx' to sign off your work and that is a process called Third Party Certification. You can find TPC on the NAPIT website.
    Go to NAPIT - Member Search and pop in your postcode and search criteria as shown below.
    upload_2022-1-4_11-28-57.png
     
  5. Chris db

    Chris db New Member

    Oh, wow, thank you!
     
  6. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    And you’ll struggle with EV charging from 13A socket unless you are prepared to wait a long time
     
  7. Chris db

    Chris db New Member

    Luckily it's and oldee gen 25kw battery so it takes around 6 hours which is just managable. We are moving in the next couple of months so don't want to waste the grant and save it for the new house. We are uning a socket at the other end of the garage at the moment but the lead is not quite long enough so have to have the car partly in the garage.
     
  8. jonathanc

    jonathanc Screwfix Select

    Why not buy or make up a decent extension lead then? Lot cheaper and easier
     
  9. Jimbo

    Jimbo Screwfix Select

    It's such a simple job I can't believe that there will be any saving in trying to divide this up, just get them to do it or run it from the existing socket which would not be notifiable (and obviously works OK).
     
  10. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    You can get forms with three signatures one for design, one for installation, and one for inspecting and testing. However when working through the LABC they select an electrician who does an electrical installation condition report (EICR) and the completion certificate is issued on the strength of that report. As to if you need the work registering not sure, Welsh and English rules are different, and one can argue until cows come home what is new, when talking about a new circuit.

    As to EV charging this is complex, the question is about DC freezing the RCD and use of type B or a type A with 6 mA auto disconnection, and loss of PEN, the latter not a problem if car charged inside the garage. Also auto charge reduction when home using too much power.

    It seems nothing to stop you fitting a 32 amp socket and plugging in a charger like this upload_2022-1-4_12-36-36.png can be set between 8 and 32 amp and costs around £270 but the built in protection varies, when wall mounting and claiming the grant the electrician fitting it has to ensure it complies and is done safely, he needs to look at the supply see if TT, TN-S or TN-C-S and decide which option best fits, including things like DNO fuse size, and if a looped supply, but this is not required to fit a 32 amp socket, which makes it a bit of a farce.

    Much depends on home, with my home it would be easy for me to connect a 32 amp TT supply at rear of house to charge a car which enough space for there to be no danger, but with a home where the postman or any other tradesman need to pass the car, the big question is if using a plug in charger be it supplied from a 13 amp or 32 amp socket safe? Could if they touch the car under fault conditions they get a fatal shock?

    Lucky loss of PEN is rare, around 250 cases per year in UK, and as it stands around 10% cause injury, I personally think TN-C-S should be banned, however although you can DIY for around £350 with a 7 kW charge point, the problem is what happens when it all goes wrong, specially when a home is sold and it goes wrong.

    I was looking at the case that was brought by Pembrokeshire County Council Trading Standards and heard by Judge Huw Rees at Merthyr Tydfil Crown Court on Monday 20th September 2021, the EICR was done for previous owner, and it cost the electrician £2,600 for signing saying it was OK when it was not, the reports don't give all the details, but you can see why electricians will not sign off other peoples work, and how even after you have left the house, it can come back to bite.

    We are told EICR should be done every 10 years with owner occupied homes, so suppose that is the limit, but if leaving the home soon, then all the more reason to not DIY the work.
     
  11. Chris db

    Chris db New Member

    Yes, I did think about that, the cable is only 1.5mm2 but it is really thick, so that must be for physical protection rather than the current I guess? If I used a heavy duty plug and socket that definitely sounds the easiest option. Thank you.
     
  12. Chris db

    Chris db New Member

    It's just because I enjoy doing electrical work myself and if it were not a notifiable job would be so easy to do. I've been doing electrical jobs for years but I recently started studying the level 2/3 electrical installation in my spare time with a view to getting qualified.
     
  13. Chris db

    Chris db New Member

    Thanks MGW, That's really interesting. I've been reading a lot about the EV charging and the DC issues with the RCD and loss of PEN etc. I' currently working through the L2/3 electrical installation books. If I were to actually pass the exams (which I can do as I'm not studying at college) there is a 2 day course to qualify as an EV installer. Certainly explains why electricians won't sign off other people's work!
     
  14. Chris db

    Chris db New Member

    The instructions for the charger warn not to connect to an extension lead, however, would a heavy duty lead like this one cause a problem? PRO XT 13A 1-Gang Unswitched Extension Lead 10m | Extension Leads | Screwfix.com It would be completely indoors. I can understand why a normal extension might be a problem but would a heavy duty one be ok do you think?
     
  15. techie

    techie Active Member

    Why not buy some 2.5mm flex and make up a lead?
     
  16. Chris db

    Chris db New Member

    That's settled,will do that , cheers
     
  17. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    One method to auto disconnect with loss of PEN is to measure voltage and under 207 or over 253 volts the unit auto disconnects, first line and neutral then earth.

    Any introduced volt drop could upset this system.
     
  18. Tony Goddard

    Tony Goddard Screwfix Select

    Or you could easily relocate the garage socket to a better position or depending on the circuit type run a spur from it in 2.5 T&E to a new point - neither would be notifiable (in England at least)
     
  19. Chris db

    Chris db New Member

    So... I weighed up the options and decided to make the heavy duty extension. However, as always there's a snag :D. I cannot find a training gang socket rated for 2.5mm flex. I popped into my local CEF and they did not have one and they said using theirs with 2.5mm 13amps would blow it. Any ideas where I can get one?

    Failing this I'll need to extend existing socket in the garage - I can't spur from it because they've spurred the combi boiler directly from this socket. My question in this case is, would it be frowned upon to have trunking running along the ceiling (the edge) as there are too many pipes and other trunking to run entirely along the walls.
     
  20. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    As has already been said, three parts to an electrical installation.
    Design
    Installation
    Inspecting and testing
    You can't design an electrical installation remotely without a lot more information, and no one on here is signing the installation certificate for the design, some times you have to accept your limitations and employ some one who has the skills.
     

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