Discussion in 'Just Talk' started by Phil the Paver, Jun 7, 2014.
Like there's such thing as a bad one?
(This new guy is very rude...)
Only to the blinkered, old chap.
Teachers have a tough job because they have no sanctions, all the deterrents to bad behaviour have been outlawed by the trendy pudding brains. Teachers can't keep children in detention without telling parents in advance, they can't cane them, they can't make them write out 100 lines. If a child is in trouble at school its parents go to school and make trouble for the teachers, when I was at school if I was in trouble at school I was in more trouble when I got home.
As for parents teaching good manners, both are usually not at home, the children have been dropped off at some child minder at 8.00 and picked up at 6.00, it's a miracle that they know their real parents these days.
Harry - that is complete ********.
(Except for the parent bit at the end...)
Anyways, where's Spunky Guy - I miss him
Me and my wife are child minders, mainly the wife because I have to work, I wish the first child arrived at 8am, our first arrives at 6.30am and the last leave between 7 and 8pm,
If children aren't set on the correct path of good behaviour early they'll turn into yobs later. Modern barmy methods, for example saying "be good" to a naughty child are clearly not working, the old tried and tested method of telling once than a sharp whack the second time a child stepped out of line worked well, letting children get away with bad behaviour are doing them no favours. The old saying "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is quite valid.
A problem is that teachers have no powers of correcting children these days and parents are too busy or don't care, so yobbism increases with each generation, if mothers and fathers are yobs children will become the same.
It's hard to get out of the cycle now because some parents are already yobs and have no interest in correcting their little darlings.
I really don't want to go down this dull old line again - I think it's been well covered before.
But, Harry, you are wrong. Completely wrong. You haven't a clue what you are talking about.
When you say "NO!" to your child and accompany it with a sharp clip over the ear, do you think they love and respect you? And therefore want to please you and be a good person? No, they don't.
They are humiliated, bullied, and feel resentful. The only reason they 'do as you say' is because you raised your hand, or they fear you will do so.
So - nice one, Harry - you have humiliated, bullied, caused resentment and instilled fear in your child.
You fuffing idiot.
I can bet you that every toe-rag you see being anti-social on the street has had that very same treatment at home.
That is not to say that poor behaviour in children isn't down to poor parenting skills - it almost certainly is.
But all the poor parents I've seen - and I've seen a few - are either the ones who do slap their kids, or else are parents who are actually 'scared' of telling their kids 'No' and sticking with it. (They fear if they say 'no' and mean it, what will they do if the kid doesn't obey? So they do it half-heartedly, and then pretend to themselves they are in control, when they are certainly not.)
Interesting views DA and by the sound of it nothing will persuade you otherwise so we'll have to agree to disagree.
In my case I went to a school where corporal punishment was administered by senior masters and the headmaster, it was relatively rare that it happened but when it did we knew we'd done wrong. I meet several of my schoolmates at reunions, two have had careers in education, one as a maths master, the other as a headmaster and both agree that when corporal punishment was outlawed that was the beginning of the end for school discipline in its proper form. Humiliation and resentment didn't occur at my school, we respected authority and we knew right from wrong.
When I retired from industry I did some lecturing at a local college and I was disappointed to find that even 18 to 20 year olds lacked discipline, they called other lecturers, who usually wore casual clothing, by their Christian names. I made a point of wearing a suit and tie and insisting they called me mister. I couldn't whack the unruly ones so after two warnings I banned them from my lectures to help those who wanted to learn, I got in trouble for it but it did the trick. I was pleased that most achieved good results and some achieved distinctions, three are still in touch and have secured good jobs.
Proper discipline at a young age is vital for success in later life. The modern ideas of "do as you like" education do young people no favours at all.
The world has, indeed, changed, Harry - and amen to that.
I was a kid in school at the time of corporal punishment, and - yes - I generally did as I was told 'cos I feared the consequences.
I obviously did get the belt on occasions, sometimes unfairly, and I can certainly remember the unfair ones with resentment to this day.
Thank t'lawd that when I became a teacher, the belt and cane had been outlawed. I cannot comment whether it would have helped me instil discipline 'cos I don't know. All I do know is that it would most likely have been used as a substitute for proper behaviour control. And I'm sure I would have relied on it, 'cos I did find some classes bludy awful...
I am quite sure I was ultimately better off for not having that option, not least 'cos I simply could not imagine myself inflicting pain on a child, however much they'd would me up. I think I'd have been ridden with guilt afterwards. And I could imagine there would be a look in their eye that would speak volumes - 'you are a bully, and I lose respect for you with each swing'.
FE lecturing, with respect, is a different kettle of worms. These kids generally don't have an entitlement to be there; they have chosen and asked it. So, if they don't want to play ball, they can be told to f'off.
Believe me, it is not the lack of "Do as I say or else..." with the threat of punishment that leads to anti-social kids. Almost the opposite - we all know that these things go in circles, so if you beat your child or wife or whatever, they are likely to do that themselves too. That doesn't lead to well-balanced people, even if most of them claim later that 'it did them no harm'.
It does, and it did.
DA, facts speak for themselves and the facts are, kids are more unruly, now giving this has happened since the abolishing of corporal punishment, go figure that the wrap them in cottonwool theory doesn't work.
The horse whisper might have tamed a few horses.
The child whisper has caused a crisis.
And that, Phil, is why you are a ukip supporter.
Don't look deeply into any issue. Don't sit and ponder. Don't use your gawd-given critical faculties.
Just toss a few superficially-connected issues together, and come out with a - for you - satisfying outcome.
Remember I mentioned I despise the likes of Farage and Salmond because of their populist and glib statements?
I reckon if you send them "The horse whisper might have tamed a few horses.The child whisper has caused a crisis." they might well hire you.
It is chust a barlocks statement.
LOL, I don't support Ukip, I just believe they say it how it is, trouble is being right on one policy doesn't make a party that could govern.
But back to unruly kids, your way isn't working, never has, never will, no one has any respect for their seniors any more, even the police are laughed at by kids today, purely on the basis that no ones going to do anything about it, courts have gone soft on what's class as minor crimes, this will come back and bite the goody two shoes **** sooner rather than later, anarchy will prevail.
"LOL, I don't support Ukip, I just believe they say it how it is"
That's practically an oxymoron.
Anyways, they don't say it 'as it is' at all - they lie, distort & exaggerate. They say glib things - sounds 'impressive', but is just dressed-up barlocks. Soaked up by the uncritical and unthinking.
"But back to unruly kids, your way isn't working, never has, never will, , even the police are laughed at by kids today, purely on the basis that no ones going to do anything about it, courts have gone soft on what's class as minor crimes, this will come back and bite the goody two shoes **** sooner rather than later, anarchy will prevail."
That is chust such complete nonsense, you ought to be embarrassed.
"your way isn't working, never has, never will" Rubbish - it is working for my kids, and those of every family who treats their children the same, respectful, way.
So you are completely wrong.
" no one has any respect for their seniors any more" Deluded barlocks. Where do I start? It's just sooo silly it's breath-taking.
Police? Perhaps some police are laughed at by some - a very, very few - kids. But don;t let that stop you from making it an all-inclusive statement.
You sound as tho' you'd almost want current society to be this way, so you can tut and say 'things ain't what they used to be' and 'a good thrashing will stop them...'
Anarchy ma botty.
DA as you are a teacher you must have been fairly well educated, at least I hope so. Unfortunately you depart from proper debate by slagging off items from those who disagree with you (eg deluded barlocks). I've read through some of your posts and they're littered with rude remarks that add nothing. I'm disappointed because I do enjoy reasoned debate.
You rightly mentioned that the world has changed, but change doesn't mean that all things are better. Clearly we are never going to agree on the best way to instil good behaviour into bad children and I'll give you full marks if you can control all children by talking nicely to them, because all children will respond positively, particularly those who come from dysfunctional families, and there are lots more of those families "since the world has indeed changed" as you put it.
I like a reasoned debate too, Harry.
It's starts when someone backs up their glib claims such as "no one has any respect for their seniors any more", "kids are more unruly, now giving this has happened since the abolishing of corporal punishment, go figure..." and "the old tried and tested method of telling once than a sharp whack the second time a child stepped out of line worked well".
Just throwing out that pile of carp and sitting back smugly as if you've said something deep and challenging is not a reasoned debate.
So I will treat these unjustified assertions with the respect they deserve.
DA, back up your claims with actual facts and figures, IE: classroom attacks on teacher, both minor and major (murder), before and after the abolition of the cane.
Feel free to come back with your tail between your legs when you realise just how bad it is.
Re-read the thread from the beginning if you can be arsed.
You started by blaming the demise of the 'cane' for society's woes. And that's as far as your argument went.
Oh thee of the "I believe this is the case - you prove I'm wrong" school of lazy discussion.
Separate names with a comma.