Guidance to working on electrics when DIY

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Aj 2012, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. Aj 2012

    Aj 2012 Member

    Hi Everyone,

    This is purely for my own curiosity but is there any official guidance on what you can and cannot do yourself at home with regards to electrical repairs and modifications?

    Obviously lots of people will be doing things they know they shouldn't, adding sockets etc (myself included in that) but I'm more curious for my own knowledge on were the line is , on what you can and cannot do a regardless of skill level and safety (appreciate that sounds backwards- I obviously do care about safety).

    When does something become notifiable (pretty sure that's a made up word) and there is somewhere I can read up further on this?

    I spend a lot of time looking through old posts on here and more so with the electrical forum over any other is the repetive phrase "get a qualified electrician to do this" used, how is the average DIYer meant to know what they can and cant attempt?

    AJ
     
  2. sparky steve

    sparky steve Screwfix Select

    You need to be aware of what your competence level is? Eg, would you attempt dentistry without any knowledge or training?
    Would you attempt surgery without any knowledge or training? Get the picture?
    Ps, curiosity killed the cat..
     
  3. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    The issue here, that not a lot of people understand, is that non-notifiable work does NOT mean the work is excluded from the requirements of 7671. Unless you own, and know how to use, the test kit required to issue a MWC, you will not be able to carry out work to the requirements of Part P.
     
  4. Aj 2012

    Aj 2012 Member

    Surely the whole point of of having regulations in place is that it's not up to your own opinion of how competent you are though?

    I am 99% sure I can change a socket out safely. I have changed lots of sockets and never been electrocuted nor has anyone else.

    Does that mean I should change sockets and it's ok for me to do that?

    I dont think it does by the way....
     
  5. sparko69

    sparko69 Screwfix Select

    99% is not enough in this scenario.
    If your gas pipe was sealed correctly 99% and only leaking 1% would that be acceptable?
    If you are not 100% sure what you are doing you should leave it alone
     
    Astramax likes this.
  6. CeSparky1

    CeSparky1 Active Member

    The problem is its what you don't know that you don't know that will catch you out.

    When you changed the socket did you confirm polarity? Did you confirm Zs value to ensure the protective device would trip in the required time? if there is no fixed lug did you run a fly lead to the back box? Did you ensure that there was a grommet fitted?

    If you add a socket do you understand rings and regulations around spurs? Did you do continuity of cpc and polarity tests or for ring final circuits end to end testing? R1+R2? R1+Rn? do you understand what results you are getting? Do you test the RCD at normal load, 1x load, 5x load, do you know how quickly these should trip? Have you carried out a Ze and polarity test?

    Do you have the test equipment to carry out the above results? Have you isolated the circuit and confirmed the isolation using a GS38 compliant testing following isolation procedures?

    To any sparky what I have said above should make complete sense.. If you dont understand the above then I would ask the question why do you think it takes so long to train as an electrician? just because you have not got electrocuted and nobody else has YET is not the definition of safe.
     
  7. Bob Rathbone

    Bob Rathbone Screwfix Select

    Knowledge is a funny thing, we all believe that in our field we know what we need to know to do the job correctly and safely. But the paradox here is that if we do not know something, then we are ignorant of it's existence and we cannot access that wisdom. In short 'Ignorance is bliss'. There is a proper name for this, which someone will tell us that they saw it on QI, but it does describe the issue quite nicely. None of of are aware of what we don't know, until we have learned it.
     
  8. Comlec

    Comlec Screwfix Select

    @CeSparky1 all very good for making alterations to a circuit but 'changing a socket' is not an alteration and it will be the quality of the work that is key to ensure there is no detriment to the original installation.
    But good to know that you check ring continuity after changing a socket. :)
     
    rogerk101 likes this.
  9. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    It's unfortunate how frequently a perfectly innocent question posed on the Electricians' Talk turns into finger-wagging warnings and proud declarations about what it takes to be a certified electrician.

    The OP posed a question asking where the limits are between what electrical tasks he is able to perform legally without requiring notification with the Local Authority. So far he has not received an answer.

    According to NIC EIC ...

    Specifically, work that is notifiable will include:
    • The installation of a new circuit
    • The replacement of a consumer unit
    • Any addition or alteration to existing circuits in a special location
    A special location means:
    • A room containing a bath or shower, the space surrounding a bath tap or shower head where the space extends vertically from the finished floor level to a height of 2.25M or the position of the shower head where it is attached to a wall or ceiling at a height higher than 2.25 metres from that level or horizontally where there is a bath tub or shower tray, from the edge of the bath tub or shower tray to a distance of 0.6 metres. Or where there is no bath tub or shower tray from the centre point of the shower head where it is attached to the wall or ceiling to a distance of 1.2 metres.
    • A room containing a swimming pool or sauna heater.
    All other electrical installation work is non notifiable - namely additions and alterations to existing installations outside special locations, and replacements, repairs and maintenance anywhere.

    Any of the certified sparks COULD have provided the answer because it's written so clearly by their masters in their bible, but, hey, when has anyone ever answered a question in the Electricians' Talk forum without throwing in their 'guidance'? :D
     
  10. sparky steve

    sparky steve Screwfix Select

    The severity of injury is determined by the voltage, current strength, resistance to flow, duration of contact, pathway of flow, and type of current. The image shown is a low-voltage electrical injury in a 33-year-old man.

    DIY
    Don’t injure yourself
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  11. rogerk101

    rogerk101 Screwfix Select

    I rest my case about finger-wagging warnings, your honour.

    BTW, that photo is not an electrical injury from a 230V domestic situation. Based on my (admittedly fairly limited) experience of electrical injuries, that is either much more than 230V or it was DC.
     
  12. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Any wiring must comply with the Building Regulations and specifically for electrical work Part P.

    Where work is notifiable, this should either be:
    1: Carried out by a member of a scheme who can self notify building control (registered spark), or
    2: Be notified to building control before work commences with the appropriate fees paid.

    Work should also comply with BS7671, Requirememnts for Electrical Installations. This document is not mandatory, but cana be used in a court of law to provide evidence of the quality of the work carried out. The work should also be tested in accordance with the appropriate secions and requirements of these Regulations.

    Test gear to allow you to test in accordance with 7671 will cost from £800 upwards, plus you need to understand both how to use the equipment and what the test results mean.

    It should also be noted that Part P only applies to domestic work. It does not apply to commercial or industrial, unless domestic property is included in the building.

    Hope that helps.
     
  13. Aj 2012

    Aj 2012 Member

    I'm going to answer no to most of what you have said.... therefore in the eyes of the law I shouldn't change a socket over, or change a light fitting etc?

    I would also suggest that 99% of sparkles I have worked with both domestic and industrial do not do this everytime they change a socket.
     
    rogerk101 likes this.
  14. Aj 2012

    Aj 2012 Member

    Now that's what I was looking for

    Out of interest I take it by their 'bible' this is the 18th edition handbook etc?
     
  15. Aj 2012

    Aj 2012 Member

    What is made clear by some of the posts above is that without adequate testing equipment , its physically impossible for me to be 100%? (And of course the years of training to come with it).
     
  16. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    [throws grenade] The answer is, your house, your life, your risk - you can do whatever minor works you feel confident to do because despite what the electrical trade would like to happen, no-one polices the rules and standards at all, and despite what people say, it makes b-all difference when you sell your house etc. (unless the electrical work is substantial and part of a bigger project like a house build or extension) [/runs away]
     
  17. sparko69

    sparko69 Screwfix Select

    You need test equipment but there are many other issues to consider,tightness of terminations is something a lot of people have no concept of and will just place conductors in terminals without tightening them leading to open circuit,some will over tighten leading to open circuit.
    Changing a socket is not as easy as it looks
    and most replies are trying to make you aware of the potential dangers, which you need to be aware of before you decide if you are going to work on electrical installations
     
  18. Coloumb

    Coloumb Screwfix Select

    I've been adding spurs and extra lighting points since I was about 14. I've never killed anyone or got a shock. Some are probably still in service and have never been properly tested. I think you would have to try pretty hard to mess up something like that.
     
    rogerk101 likes this.
  19. Mr Rusty

    Mr Rusty Screwfix Select

    :eek::rolleyes:
     
  20. Dave_C

    Dave_C Member

    Having been lurking on this forum for a while, and seeing lots of posts from DIY-ers, I think this is a important subject. I've noticed that some of the professionals on here take the attitude that "DIY-ers will do it themselves anyway, so let's help them do it as well as possible", which as a DIY-er I appreciate.

    I also agree with the comments saying that the danger is in the things people don't know that they don't know.

    So being pragmatic, what are the risks of, for example, someone extending a ring with some new sockets and then not performing the complete set of tests? It's easy to tell DIY-ers to get a professional in, but I think the advice is much more likely to be taken if they are told why (in practical terms).

    Are there some tests that a DIY-er with a multimeter or other cheap test equiment could do to reduce the risk that they've introducted faults into their installation?

    This of course assumes the circuit is satisfactory in the first place, which clearly a DIY-er without test equipment can't determine.
     

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