Has my new CH Grunfos UPS2 pump been fitted correctly?

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Joseppi, May 2, 2018.

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Get them back out?

  1. Oh my goodness yes indeed my man

    2 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. Nowt amara wi that bud

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. Joseppi

    Joseppi New Member

    low1.jpg Hello chaps and chapesses.

    Had my old myson pump that sounded like a bag of hammers replaced by the local plumber who is a CH engineer. Had to go on holiday so never had a chance to test it. Radiators not getting hot at all and some clay cold. As I'm a diy-er - flushed out the system and currently have some x400 cleaner in.
    Surprisingly discovered that the pump may be installed in the wrong orientation - but don't know if this will affect the pump efficiency. Water direction is corrrect but I can only get any 2 radiators hot. Output from the boiler is 70ishc return is 15ish. No probs with hot water. F&E Y system I think (to tanks in the loft 1 diverter (working ok i think) (possible diverter valves bunged up?) Help!!
    Could I have some votes please?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    Why votes? Just ask the Q Is this right!
     
  3. Pollowick

    Pollowick Screwfix Select

    WRONG - the motor spindle should be horizontal.

    Pull up the Grundfos instruction and it specifically tells you that.

    Either get teh installer back to do it right or DIY. Loosening the nuts will allow you to tweak it round and you can also remove the four allen head screws to rotate the head and controller. The instructions tell you all you need.
     
  4. Joseppi

    Joseppi New Member

    Do you think it will impact pump efficiency - or just the bearing wear. Cheers
     
  5. exbg

    exbg Active Member

    Bearing wear. But your plumber probably thought "what the heck - it's a pi$s poor install anyway"
     
    Joseppi likes this.
  6. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    Not bearing wear most likely enhanced motor damage.
    Either way it is not to manufacturer instructions.
     
  7. Joseppi

    Joseppi New Member

    The old Myson unit was fiitted horizontal so I guess they just duplicated it. I Don't thing it'll rotate 90 degrees unless meaybe chop a bit flooring.
     
  8. just pumps

    just pumps Screwfix Select

    Then chop the floor.
     
    KIAB likes this.
  9. Sammi

    Sammi Member

    No need to chop holes, Jose, but it is a drain-down job to below pump level, so really the plumber should come back to sort this since it should have been obvious to them it was wrong from the off. This is really basic stuff, so I can't understand why the plumber didn't do it. The pump will not last as long as it should, and the plumber is to blame.

    As Pollowick says, if you undo the 4 allen screws the motor part will lift off the lower casing (where the pipes are). The motor can then be refitted 180o around - a half-turn. That should then allow the whole thing to rotate 'forwards' (as in the first pic) until the pump spindle is horizontal.
     
    KIAB and Joseppi like this.
  10. Pollowick

    Pollowick Screwfix Select

    Why drain down? There are isolation valves - shut those off and the pump can be moved.
     
  11. Joseppi

    Joseppi New Member

    Cheers Sammy - all understood - just cut away some of the carpet and the whole unit should rotate..and as you say swap around the head 180. It was a CH company who did the work just two weeks ago. I've had hem back twice so far as they over tightened the pump and it started to leak 2hrs after the install - and again to look at the horizontal pump shaft issue. Not really knowing much about the consequences of the pump shaft not being horizontal apart from maybe a slightly shorted pump life. I suppose I thought the experts would know what they were doing. I thought if they did a poor job they would just have to come back under warranty claims etc. So its a call in tomorrow and see what they come up with. Hopefully it will improve the pumps efficiency as the new one isn't pumping as well as the old noisey myson!
     
  12. Peterdevon

    Peterdevon Active Member

    And get a jacket for the cylinder
     
    Joseppi likes this.
  13. Sammi

    Sammi Member

    As I understand it, the pump bearing is lubricated by the system water and this requires the pump shaft to be horizontal.

    Grundfos will soon give you the back-up you require if you contact them. The installers are liable for this - it was NOT installed correctly, and they don't even have an excuse as the solution is straight-forward.

    I have no idea whether it will sort your other issues. If your DHW is ok but only a couple of rads are getting hot, and with a huge discrepancy in flow-to-return temp, then I suspect there's something else wrong.

    Two things to check - does the 3-way diverter valve seem to operate smoothly when you call for DHW only and then CH only and then
    back again? And let us know in which direction the pump arrow is pointing - is it towards this diverter valves or away from it? (Not a question one should need to ask, but with these guys it does need to be.)
     
    Joseppi likes this.
  14. Joseppi

    Joseppi New Member

    Will check pump direction - but output was red hot as output form diverter was in CH mode. Only query is really is new pump US or is there a problem else where. Have balanced all the radiators and they all get a little heat say +5c on room temp but I have to close down 7 radiators to get 2 of them hot. The most distant one doesn't get past 40c with all the others closed. Hence the installation of the x400. Will ring the company shortly and ask them to put the pump right and test it for flow rate as a starter - Thanks Sammi
     
  15. The heating of your DHW - and even your CH - can still happen (particularly with the DHW side) even if the pump is the wrong way around, but the action of the 3-port valve could be compromised by this as the wrong flow direction could, for example, force open the DHW side when it's on the CH setting.

    When you say the DHW works fine and it's only the CH side that doesn't, have you noticed whether the DHW ALSO heats up when it's only on the CH setting?

    If your system is cool or just warm at the moment, try turning it on to CH only, and feel the central pipe to the 3-port valve, and also keep feeling the two outlets from it. The central pipe should become hot very quickly - now see which of the outlet pipes do so. (You do know which outlet pipe is which, yes? The DHW one heads for the hot cylinder.)
     
  16. Please do email Grundfos and ask their opinion on this too - it'll give you excellent back-up when calling these cowboys back. Also ask Grundfos whether any damage could already have been caused in the couple of months the pump has already been running, and whether the plumber should therefore replace it. Ask them whether they would guarantee this pump with the way it was installed.

    (And add a conspicuous mark to the existing pump, and demand to SEE the new one...)
     
  17. Joseppi

    Joseppi New Member

    Input to diverter (in Ch mode) is same temp as output to rads. Link to boiler coil is a little cooler.
     
  18. If your system is cool or just warm at the moment, try turning it on to CH only, and feel the central pipe to the 3-port valve, and also keep feeling the two outlets from it. The central pipe should become hot very quickly - now see which of the outlet pipes also do so. (You do know which outlet pipe is which, yes? The DHW one heads for the hot cylinder.)
     
  19. Joseppi

    Joseppi New Member

    All ok - in DHW mode valve operates and coil gets hot - return to boiler very warm so all looks ok.
     
  20. Pollowick

    Pollowick Screwfix Select

    My original UPS was installed with the shaft vertical - it only lasted around 25 years. In the OPs case, being at an angle is going to be the problem with uneven wear and I certainly would not accept it.
     

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