Heard it all before.

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by peter palmer, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    These were the words uttered by a joiner when we all started for a new firm doing this working away lark that we do. Apparently this time every one would get masses of work and get rich. I was the only one who agreed with the joiner.

    Although there is still plenty of work going on its so disorganised I'm amazed he makes any money at all. He told us to employ someone which we have done and was paying us on the second Friday after you put your invoice in, so if you put it in on Friday 1st you would get it Friday 15th.

    He is now trying to change the terms and say you will only get paid 30 days after invoice date/recieved. Getting paid 2 weeks after is bad enough, although we don't have to buy materials there are 2 vans to run, fuel and hotel costs, the hotel costs alone could easily be £1.5-2K over the month and it works out around £8K he owes us at any one time after 2 weeks so if we work for him constantly he will always owe us that. If we go to 30 days he will owe us £16K+ for ever and a day, that effectively becomes his money to do what he wanst with.

    Would anyone go for this or tell him where to stick it, after all where else will he find someone who will work all over the country doing full re-wires as well as installing and fixing things like door entries, data and fire alarms etc, do EICRs on massive dilapidated doss houses and test and certify emergency lighting etc. Front the hotel costs and wait 30 days for any dosh. Would anyone here do it?

    Bear in mind I'm someone who is perfectly content to earn £50 in a morning and spend the rest of the day pottering and relaxing in the garden.
     
  2. terrymac

    terrymac Well-Known Member

    Thank him for his offer Peter ,but tell him its not attractive and unless he can make you a better offer thats an improvement on the current arrangement you are going to b&q to buy a new set of gardening tools with the money he currently owes you. Regards Terry
     
  3. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Well-Known Member

    Don't do it. You are acting as a free bank load for him.
    If the main contractor is not sufficiently organised and funded...you will be the ones who will get stuffed.
    Look at your actual profits after all your own expenses............if you do this for 6 months, get paid...and he fails to pay 20 grand at the end..
    .....what will you have actually earned per hour over those months.
    Don't know your age or situation........but if you can do local jobs to suit your health, lifestyle, social life, home life etc. ...do that.
    If you asked him for 16 k up front every month before you opened your toolbox....what would he say ?
    RS
     
    Jord86 likes this.
  4. Pollowick

    Pollowick Well-Known Member

    Yes, unfortunate, but remember he is probably on similar terms with the end customer so will not have the money to pay to until he get it himself.

    I worked for a large British Company (revenue in billions) who are still trading very profitably and I had travel, hotel & subsistence expenses that could get up to £15k in a month. My expenses were paid maybe two weeks after submission and as I needed to be in the office, that could be 6 weeks from actually incurring them. I had both my own and a corporate, self-settled credit card which I used which allowed me time to claim and receive the funds.

    So, why do you not have a company credit card that you use for hotels, subsistence, petrol and ad-hoc purchases. With careful management you could use it to your advantage, by getting paid well before you need to settle the credit card invoice?
     
    retiredsparks likes this.
  5. terrymac

    terrymac Well-Known Member

    You could ask the same question to the main contractor ,why is his cash flow so poor . There is a huge difference between an established company with turnover in billions ,that very ,very rarely go bust , and a company that employs sub contractors in the building industry, who go bust frequently ,leaving subbies holding the baby. I for one wouldnt consider for one minute exposing myself to the levels that Peter is talking about ,in the building industry . If the main contractor is supplying all materials ,he can attain credit from his supplier's ,if his business is so under capitalised that he cant pay his labour and their expenses on the terms that were agreed originally ,and now wants to stretch them out ,it says it all .
     
    Paul12345 and Jord86 like this.
  6. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    Thats my thinking, he's running out of cash, no surprise the way its run.
     
  7. Comlec

    Comlec Well-Known Member

    Another case of expanding without the necessary cashflow, a classic way to go bust.
     
  8. spinlondon

    spinlondon Well-Known Member

    See if you can get him to pay for the hotel over the phone with a credit/debit card.
    It that’s not enough, see if he will pay your expenses weekly.
     
  9. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Well-Known Member

    Hi Peter

    Tell him you will agree to his terms as long as he gives you an up-front float of £20k. That way he will be maintaining the float at the end of each 30 day period, and you will be using his money not yours. If he will not agree you have your answer. Also if he goes t!ts up you are not massively out of pocket.

    Kind regards
     
    Flame likes this.
  10. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    I've already said that I won't be paying for anything, he will have to sort out all the accommodation etc. and if its a **** hole I won't be staying there. I'm also going to rinse him for every penny I can from now on, nothing will be a freebe.

    Personally I can take the hit, I'm not really a money orientated person, my mortgage is paid off and my bills are next to **** all. Its my business partner who is all for expanding the business and taking people on and he is willing to risk everything for this big payout that is supposedly coming our way. Daft thing is he is the one that should be cautious as he has just bought a house and has a couple of kids.

    This is why we don't have a company credit card or credit accounts, because of me the business is debt free, if we need materials or fuel or hotels it comes straight from cash in the bank, without sounding boastful its a great position to be in, its just about as stress free as it can be running a business. Its just a pity that most people are so hung up on having all the money in the world to buy the latest tat they don't need that they make themselves homeless trying to achieve it.

    Its funny the stages you go through in life, in our firm you've got the full range from the 19 year old lad who probably thinks I should give all my money away to starving Africans to my 30 year old business partner who thinks he will be the next Alan Sugar on the way to earning a million to me who has realised that being content is worth way more than what money could ever buy.
     
  11. chippie244

    chippie244 Well-Known Member

    I do some work for various companies that pay after 30 days but they book and pay for the hotels, travel is 40p a mile, breakfast and lunch is provided and 20/35 quid for evening meal.
    I usually only do a few days a month and when I get paid it's like a little bonus.
     
  12. Sparkielev

    Sparkielev Well-Known Member

    totally agree I hate credit accounts pay all my wholesalers through cash accounts, nothing worse than a big bill at the end of the month, these big jobs are more hassle than they are worth
     
  13. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    We've decided we won't be doing any more work for these ********* from now on. Apart from the 30 day payment thing the attitude of one of the owners is ridiculous, he is like a petulant child, he hangs up the phone on you if he doesn't get his own way, he thinks he can command you what to do and where to go as if we are his skivvies and now he has a problem with the price of a quoted job now its nearly finished. Nothing was said when we put the price in and because its gone easier than we thought and we have finished a week or so earlier than planned he is saying we priced it a bit high.

    I just don't get why anyone that runs any sort of building/construction firm resents anyone else making a bit of money. I've seen it loads over the years, they are quite happy to swan about in expensive cars and waste money left right and centre but if you make a couple of quid on them their world literally falls apart, its like they have lost everything, I'm just amazed other people put up with this sort of attitude and go with the flow.

    From now on its private clients only, no big time Charlies or two bit builders, cocks the lot of them, we did a re-wire last week for a private punter, took just over a week and we got £4K transferred straight into the bank, no-one breathing down our necks or plasterers crying they need a wall, it was so simple by comparison, honestly, can't wait until I've got enough money to retire.
     
  14. retiredsparks

    retiredsparks Well-Known Member

    I tried working once...didnt like it !
    Retired 10 years ago.....
    Very inefficient at doing stuff now.
    Trying hard .......not ......to find new hobbies to spend money on.
    I think of lots of projects....then after a few beers come to my senses.;)
    Don't miss having to drive, deal with numpties and people stressed out of their tiny minds.
    If you can retire , do so...and enjoy ..before the Big C gets you.
    Rs
     
  15. terrymac

    terrymac Well-Known Member

    Good for you Peter.
    I doubt you will have any regrets whatsoever.
     
  16. jimoz

    jimoz Active Member

    Harder question. How much is enough to retire?!
     
  17. RolandK

    RolandK Active Member

    Totally agree. Been retired 3 yrs now and it's still a novelty to do what I fancy when I fancy and leave the stuff I don't fancy doing as much as I can get away with at least!
     
  18. DIY womble

    DIY womble Well-Known Member

    I'm 57 and have only just got started
     
  19. peter palmer

    peter palmer Well-Known Member

    Depends on how much you need, if you can live off the old age pension then I would say £100K to retire at 55. You would live a simple life though.
     
  20. chippie244

    chippie244 Well-Known Member

    I agree, I won't do site work, won't work for builders. It's either private work where I vet the customers or my media or corporate stuff.
     

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