Help required fir an elderly neighbour

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Cymro18, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. Cymro18

    Cymro18 New Member

    Hi All

    I am trying to help our elderly n ighbour who has a shower leak and I am a tree surgeon by trade so not much idea with plumbing.

    Basically the leak is coming because the shower tray was not sealed and had some plastic trim stuff to hold the water out which the adhesion finally gave up.

    The questions I have are is the gap from tile to tray to big to use sealant on as shown in the picture and is so what should I do. And once sealed should I get some decent double sided tape and stick the trim back on or even use sealant to stick it back I was thinking belt and braces job to ensure no more leak and the job lasts as I am not really experienced with a sealant gun so am a bit worried about the finish.

    Thanks for your help guys if I can help with any tree surgery questions ask away lol and our elderly neighbour will be very grateful also as he has not had a shower for five days until I offered him to use ours the old bugger was worried he could not afford the repair !!!
    Thanks again

    Attached Files:

  2. CGN

    CGN Well-Known Member
  3. goldenboy

    goldenboy Well-Known Member

    Go to a window plastics counter and buy a 5.1m long length of upvc quadrant (maybe a fiver) Lots of different sizes available.

    Clean out the old silicone with a stanley blade.

    Get some anti mould silicone in white Squirt loads into the void and then run a bead on tiles and on tray.

    Push quadrant in and clean off excess with a baby wipe.

    Its about all you can do when tiles are well shy of a tray.
    Heat, PhilSo and Neil1987 like this.
  4. Neil1987

    Neil1987 Member

    Couldnt have said it any better only issue I would think about was the gap always that size or is tray sinking
  5. Heat

    Heat Well-Known Member

    Plastic quad beading is great solution to cover and seal over a large gap at tray. But problem is you need to mitre the corner joint (needs sealant there) and be sure to keep that joint accurately together when you press all pieces into place.
  6. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    That's a huge gap! If that was my tray, I'd clean out the gap as much as possible using dry cloths and something to press and rub it in there firmly like the handle of that toothbrush, and I'd then completely fill that gap with a good quality silicone first, levelling it off with a sharp right-angled former which is run along both the tile surface and the tray top so that the silicone 'fill' ends up level with both - a perfect, filled 'L'. That would need leaving for a couple of days to fully cure, but that should happen fine in weather like this. (The top half-inch at least would certainly set, and the rest can cure over time from below as you continue with the mouldings).

    Then I'd use mouldings and silicone as described by CGN above.

    But I would never ever rely on just such a moulding with its thin contact surfaces with such a void behind it.

    If there is any movement in that tray - any movement at all - I would not expect that moulding to last; it has no flex to accommodate this. But by literally filling that void (obviously depending on how large it is) you would also be securing and anchoring the tray, as well as providing a really good secondary water seal.

    Silicone is cheap so fill your boots and the gap, but use good stuff.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  7. Cymro18

    Cymro18 New Member

    Hi thank you to everyone for the suggestions it is much appreciated. I thought about putting a load of sealant in the gap but thought that I then would not be able to use sealant over it as it would not stick to the dried sealent to make a seal if that makes sense, somebody suggested putting a backer rod in there would this work. And would it then be an idea once sealed to put the plastic strips back on for a belt and braces repair.

    Thanks again I just want to get it sorted for the old guy without future problems.
  8. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    New silicone does stick quite well to old, but in any case the idea was to effectively have two separate barriers; the first is a silicone 'fill' which is levelled off flush with the two surfaces - the tiles and shower tray top rim. Once nicely skinned, any silicone residue on the tile surface and the tray top is then rubbed off, leaving them both clean ready to take the second barrier - the silicone-bedded plastic quadrant - after a couple of days. But allow the 'fill' to set first - a couple of days ideally.

    But try and clean inside that gap first, especially the upper part against the tile lower edge and wall, and the side of the tray below the top. You really want the silicone to adhere well to both sides.

    If the gap is truly huge and has no bottom so that you'd be injecting forever, then I understand the trick is to use some form of packing stuffed down there first - rolled up strips of newspaper etc! Anything should do - a strip of foam, cloth - whatever can be pressed down there firmly. But really do press it down well so that the silicone fill has a good 20mm depth below the tray top - that silicone plug will form a really secure waterproof barrier provided it's adhered well to the tile/wall and the shower tray side.

    Use a filling knife or similar - something with a crisp sharp right-angle - to get the upper level as flush as possible, but obviously not sticking up any higher that the top.

    After two days, bed down the quadrant in fresh silicone. Worth getting one of these rubber finishing tools for silicone to run along the top and bottom edges of the beading and wipe off excess silicone whilst leaving a small, neat bead.

    Good luck with this - it is really kind of you to help your neighbour. Along with our England team, you are an inspiration :)
  9. Cymro18

    Cymro18 New Member

    Hi firstly thank for sharing your time and knowledge it is much appreciated. The gap is 8mm and does not seem to have a bottom so I think I would be injecting forever so your suggestion to pack it with rolled up newspaper first sounds the best way forward.
    What would your thoughts be on once this is done and I have a seal that I then reattached the strips that I removed as shown in the picture attached as an additional barrier or is the quadrant worth the effort and thanks again for your help

    Attached Files:

  10. CGN

    CGN Well-Known Member

    Could always try a bit of expanding foam in the gap first. If you do use newspaper, don't use page 3, else it could all go **** up!

    Def use some plastic, quadrant or what I listed. Its still a bit of a bodge, but a better bodge and should hopefully last a few years.

    What type of tray is it BTW? Its not on a riser/legs is it?
  11. Cymro18

    Cymro18 New Member

    Hi no it does not look like the shower tray will rise unfortunately and It would mean moving the screen up also which is probably beyond my capabilities lol.I am back at his house now looking at it before I run to b@q so two last questions if you don't mind firstly after cutting the quadrant 90 degrees do I just use sealant between the two ends to seal and why do you think using the plastic I removed is a bad idea only asking as it is cut to size and I have it already thanks
  12. CGN

    CGN Well-Known Member

    I didn't say it was a bad idea...don't think so anyhow :)

    You def want some plastic of some description there. Just get plenty of sealant behind, then stick on the plastic and seal carefully. Make sure the tiles and tray is clean beforehand. Some meths is useful for that.
  13. Cymro18

    Cymro18 New Member

    You sir are a star thank you and I will let you know how I got on
  14. Cymro18

    Cymro18 New Member

    Me again lol what would be best to stick the plastic on more sealent or some strong double sided tape that I have which I think is waterproof thanks
  15. Cymro18

    Cymro18 New Member

    Me again lol what would be best to stick the plastic on more sealent or some strong double sided tape that I have which I think is waterproof thanks
  16. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    Is that the type of self-adhesive strip? If so, that was bound to fail at some point, and I'd be astonished if it didn't allow a small leak in the corner from day one. The problem with them is that the self-adhesive strip is set in from the plastic strip's edges, so there is always a lip, a tiny gap, between the strip and the tiles where water will gather, sitting there against the adhesive strip.

    Can you reuse it? Yes, but it won't be as easy to do so as it's flexible and could move as you finish off the silicone edges, so I think it'll be more tricky to obtain a good finish. But I guess ultimate aesthetics isn't really the major consideration? :)

    If you want to reuse it - and I don't blame you - then I would suggest scrapping off the adhesive band that's on it provided that's fairly easy to do with a scraper. I would rather the plastic strip itself be fully bedded down in silicone, rather than the old adhesive strip trying to bind to the silicone.

    Fill that gap as before and allow to set. Then clean the mating surfaces thoroughly - the tile and the shower top - and run a fresh bead of silicone along the very corner. Make this bead continuous and heavy enough so that when you bed down the plastic trim, silicone is extruded out all the way both along the tiles and along the tray. Press the L-folded strip gently in to the corner and allow the two lips to unfold against their respective surfaces. Press it all in to the corner gently and continuously, smoothing it out and along each strip until silicone is extruded all the way along both edges with no gaps. I guess you want that remaining layer bead of silicone to be around 1 to 2 mm thick? Once you are happy, use a proper or improvised tool to clear away the excess silicone from each edge. If you use a round 'pencil' former for this, you should end up with a neat small curved edge which is nicely sealed to the tray and wall. If you are left with any tramlines - which you will be - I find it easier to allow it to set for a half-hour until it's still soft but not stupid-sticky; you'll then be able to either scrape this off neatly (without pressing on the plastic strip!) or might even find you can peel it away in a continuous line.

    Or, if it's scary, leave it to fully set and then use a sharper edge to scrape it off - it will come away fairly easily.

    Make certain you have a visible silicone edge showing along all the edges, especially in the corner. Make sure you apply enough silicone to allow it to be extruded from all edges first time, because you really don't want to be lifting that plastic strip away to add more :).

    By the time you've done this, it'll be a lot better than it ever was.

    Last step - feel very chuffed.
  17. CGN

    CGN Well-Known Member

    Didn't take long eh?! ;)
  18. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    I think he's new to this, so it'll take him longer than he thinks.
  19. Cymro18

    Cymro18 New Member

    So true lol when I said I would sort for him I thought may take me an hour lol
  20. Allsorts

    Allsorts Well-Known Member

    :) It isn't too bad. It'll be a 2-stage job, and the filling of that void will be a good half hour or so.

    Don't fuss too much over finish as it isn't important. Making it watertight is the vital thing.

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