Help tiling my shower

Discussion in 'Tilers' Talk' started by lindersville, Jan 3, 2007.

  1. lindersville

    lindersville New Member

    Hi there,

    After having a leaking shower cubical due to previous owners/builders putting tiles straight onto plaster i have removed tiles to leave plaster which is drying as we speak.

    This is what i plan to do...

    1. screw hardibacker 500 onto plaster using old studs behind (to remove old plasterboard unfortunatly is just not possible)
    2. use WP1 tanking kit to waterproof (as sujested by members of this forum.
    3 tile and grout

    I have done many searches on this forum and others and these are my unanswered questions......

    1. I have been told by a tile company selling hardibacker that i will not need to tank a shower cubical unless it was a wetroom how nessasary is this? (im using forum advice about tanking i had never heard of it before)

    2. does the shower tanking kit include anything to fill the gaps between the hardibacker or do i use tile adesive?

    3. do you tank onto the shower tray or is it just for the hardibacker? ie do i then seal the gap between the wall and tray with normal silicone?

    4. due to existing walls the hardibacker will sit on the shower tray is this an issue? ie could a small leak at tray level soak up hardibacker and the old plaster behind act as a wick?

    5. i understand that tanking is a latex if so does it set hard? do you just pop adesive striaght onto it and tile (after 24hours)? if so how thick?

    6. any other top tips about corners/gaps etc?

    7. what gap in mm do i leave between tray?


    im sure i will think of more questions as the job progresses
    many thanks for any help

    oh another one came to mind..... i was just going to tile down to tray and not use any of those plastic things wil that be ok?
     
  2. lindersville

    lindersville New Member

    for question 7 i mean between tiles and tray

    and also for the distance between the hardibacker and tray would it be wise just to sit hardibacker on a bed of silicone?
     
  3. duncairn

    duncairn New Member

    Has the previous owner/builder tiled over skimmed plaster? What plaster exactly is drying out? the plaster that has already been soaked and damp for a while??
     
  4. lindersville

    lindersville New Member

    yes they have tiled over skimmed plaster, where the tiles had come loose and water had got behind the plaster is damp but nothing my de humidifier should not sort out
     
  5. duncairn

    duncairn New Member

    There is nothing wrong with tiling over skimmed plaster, if the water has got through i would rip the plasterboard off and re do, if you have a power shower and the cubicle was going to be mosaic you might want to get it tanked, otherwise it is a lot of expense for nothing really
     
  6. lindersville

    lindersville New Member

    it is not possible to remove all the plasterboard otherwise i would.

    i am getting so many mixed messages i just want to do the job properly and i would rather go over the top to be safe rather than be ripping it all off in 2 years time?

    from the info i have read already hardibacker is the minimum i should have but will still let water through so if i want it to last more than 3/4 years i should tank it

    duncairn you say there is nothing wrong with tiling over skimmed plaster but this is why im in this predicament in the first place?
     
  7. britishblue

    britishblue New Member

    Hardibacker is not waterproof, it is resistant to water damage, in that it doesn't expand or disintegrate or lose its strength if it gets wet.

    BB
     
  8. duncairn

    duncairn New Member

    Hardibacker 500 is 12mm thick, so that on top of your existing substrate and maybe 6mm tiles then your addy- its going to come out quite a bit maybe 20mm in total - imho i think it would look ****
     
  9. Tank it, it's what the systems are designed for and we one of the last first world countries to actually specify this as a matter of course.

    Tiles, grout adhesive, hardibacker, whilst all of them are waterproof, none of them provide (or are designed to provide) a waterproof barrier, tanking does.

    Also the technical definition of of a shower cubicle as far as building regs are concerned is a "Wet Area" not a shower (which is the definition of a hand held unit driven off the bath taps or similar.
     
  10. lindersville

    lindersville New Member

    great thread mudster

    many thanks

    do you see any great problems with fitting hardibacker onto old plaster?

    if i try to remove old plaster i am very worried i am going to damage areas around the shower which would mean a lot more expense

    i am not happy about loosing the 12mm each side but i can live with that

    do you forsee any problems with dropping the hardibacker straight onto the tray? and what expansion gap should i use? the 6mm or just drop it onto a bed of silicone?
     
  11. Out of preference I would remove the existing skimmed board, which is actually a lot less hassle than you think (although a little messy).

    The problem I foresee losing 12mm each side plus tiles is finding a shower door that will fit, as your existing one will no longer fit due to the reduction in width.

    I wouldn't sit the board directly onto the tray, I'd sit it on 2mm tile spacers, then tape and join or silicone the bottom edge before tiling.
     
  12. duncairn

    duncairn New Member

    exactly !
     
  13. lindersville

    lindersville New Member

    ok been a busy day!

    due to not having good fixings on 2 walls i have removed old plasterboard and put up new wooden battons to fix board to.

    so will only be losing 12mm on one side which the shower door can adjust to

    thanks for the advice on the gap to leave at the tray as i will be hardibacking it tomorrow

    shall i just fill gaps with the BAL white?

    i will let you all know how i get on
     
  14. lindersville

    lindersville New Member

    ok just read all the instructions for hardibacker and WP1 and for the hardibacker they advise not only to use tile adesive for joints but also alkaline resistant tape?

    is the tape essential? im only sitting 1 board on top of another each other, so im not even sure if there will be any gap to fill..... if so do i need to do anything at all at the joint?

    shall i silicone the hardibacker at the 2 shower cubical corners ? or do i have to apply adesive and tape? and what gap shall i leave at the corners 2mm again?
     
  15. Bigplumber

    Bigplumber New Member

    ok just read all the instructions for hardibacker and WP1 and for the hardibacker they advise not only to use tile adesive for joints but also alkaline resistant tape?

    Use the tape that comes with the tanking system. Tanking may be unnecassary to some peopl ebut I think it is essential and is code in US, Canada and Spain. Fil the joints with cement based adhesive, not ready mix.

    is the tape essential? im only sitting 1 board on top of another each other, so im not even sure if there will be any gap to fill..... if so do i need to do anything at all at the joint?

    Yes the tape is essential and as it's in the box may as well ise it, will stop t etanking from cracking.

    shall i silicone the hardibacker at the 2 shower cubical corners ? or do i have to apply adesive and tape? and what gap shall i leave at the corners 2mm again?

    Use the tape in the corners also, you want to tank it to at least 2mm thick. Once tanked mark a line on the wall and use a few beads of clear silicone and squidge the shower tray into it then run a bead along the top pressing in with finger. I tanked and siliconed our bath in and as I couldn't tile it for a while we just used it, with no tiles, totally water proof.

    Aim for 1-2mm in the corners, just so long as they don't actually touch and udeally silicone a corner rather than grout, but I grout most and have no probs.
     
  16. lindersville

    lindersville New Member

    i will use tape with the tanking system for tanking but i am checking if its nessasary to use the akline tape for the hardibacker?

    how ill i know when the tanking is 2mm thick? how many coats is this?
     
  17. As you'll be taping the joints with the WP1 kit, I wouldn't bother with a further layer of tape on the boards, but do fill all the gaps with cement based adhesive.

    Don't worry too much about 2mm thickness, I tended to paint it on with a 4" brush, coat the whole lot, then go back over it all until I used all the gubbins up, wear gloves and use a disposable brush not your best paint brush!

    In a shower the bottom 18" is the most critical, so pain the whole lot to shoulder height minimum, then start again at the bottom upwards, this will give you a good coverage.
     
  18. bathstyle

    bathstyle Active Member

  19. lindersville

    lindersville New Member

    thanks again mudster for your great advice!

    the cubical is now lined in hardbacker! imo its not that nice to work with, i couldnt get the score and snap to work that well and i had to countersink all the screws which was a real pain.

    glad you gave me the top tip for painting only up to shoulder height as i thort this would do the whole shower!

    it says 4.5m on the box and my total shower area is 5.5m! in the link you sent me they have tanked the whole area, can you get different sized kits?

    from my calculations my shower walls are 220cm by 80cm and i have three of these.......so i can go up to 180cm only (which is my head height), hhhmmm better go and check that before i get painting!

    do you ever advise tanking down onto the tray? or just silicone bottom of hardibacker to the tray then tank hardibacker only?

    thanks again for your time without this advise this challanging job would be so much more difficult!
     

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