Hive multizone

Discussion in 'Plumbers' Talk' started by Craig Jenkins, Mar 7, 2020.

  1. Craig Jenkins

    Craig Jenkins New Member

    Guys not sure if this is a hive question or whether it matters that it’s hive or a normal thermostat but here goes

    Iv just had an extension and my electrician hasn’t done many hive systems so Iv got a new boiler baxi 830 I have a single zone underfloor heating manifold, 2 port valves one on the heating and one on the UFH zone and two recievers for the hive with two thermostats can anyone give the simple way to wire this that my electrician will understand please?
    Any help appreciated
     
  2. kiaora

    kiaora Guest

    hi
    each zone valve need wiring,like this,
    blue neutral,
    brown to the hive call for heat signal
    orange to the boiler switch live
    and grey permanent live
    earth to earth.

    so the hive, when calling for heat activates the valve to open, brown wire.
    when open, a micro switch switches the permanent live, to the boiler switch live ,(orange)

    good luck
    peter
     
  3. Craig Jenkins

    Craig Jenkins New Member

    So I’m not wiring it but want to understand because if I do he should

    so each valve neutral is wired to the neutral in the receiver?
    Brown to the receiver call for heat?
    Orange direct into the boiler?

    Grey permanent live into the boiler?

    earth to boiler earth?

    And as for the manifold and pump is that jut wired into the boiler or into power? Thanks again sorry if I sound dull but this isn’t my wheelhouse
     
  4. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    There are three basic ways a boiler can be controlled, extra low voltage on/off (X8), extra low voltage on to ebus, (X13) and 230 volt (X4), Hive duel thermostat is 230 volt only and the Drayton Wiser 3 channel is also 230 volt, the under floor heating is no problem as the pump re-circulates the water so return water is normally 27°C so cool enough to ensure boiler uses the latent heat.

    As long as the boiler can be controlled with 230 volt, then yes can be done, but this is really a job for a heating engineer as it gets a little complex, what one needs to realise getting a system to work, and getting it to work efficiently are two different things. A modulating boiler needs to have cool return water to work efficient, to do this you can restrict the flow through the radiators, with lock shield valves and thermostat radiator valves (TRV) but exactly how depends on the house.

    I think it is likely the under floor heating controller will also control the central heating, but I know when it is too complex and I would get in an expert to design it, not a simple electrician, there is a reason why they are called engineers, it means trained to level 5 (degree) not just level 3 (normal collage). Yes I can make it work, but I assume you want work efficiently, I have not heard of "L-Bus connection" before, I would assume it is a manufacturers special.

    See page 43 it seems to show connections to boiler.
     
  5. kiaora

    kiaora Guest

    Hi
    The grey permanent live, and blue and earth all go to the wiring centre,
    And the brown and boiler live go to the wiring centre, but are connected to the boiler sw, live and the hive call for heat,
    Regards
    Peter ,
     
  6. Craig Jenkins

    Craig Jenkins New Member

    And what about the pump for the manifold is that just direct to mains?
     
  7. kiaora

    kiaora Guest

    hi
    When there is a demand for u/f heating, the programmer or hive system will send a live to the pump and brown wire on the zone valve via the room stat.
    The actual temperature of the u/f water is controlled by the blending valve,
    So the pump comes on and the valve opens, the boiler pump feeds the blending valve via the zone valve.
    The boiler pump is normally controlled via the boiler, to allow pump overrun.

    regards
    Peter
     
  8. Craig Jenkins

    Craig Jenkins New Member

    So where is the live earth and neutral of the pump wired straight into the stat?
     
  9. Run a three core and earth from the main wiring centre to the position of the manifold, 2 port valve and pump.
    You will have another wiring centre here, where the stat etc for the under floor heating is wired up.
     
  10. Craig Jenkins

    Craig Jenkins New Member

    So atm I had a new boiler fitted and the boiler manifold and both valves are within a foot or two of each other so what’s the best way of doing it
     
  11. Craig Jenkins

    Craig Jenkins New Member

    So my initial understand was the heating has 1x2port valve and the underfloor heating has one, they both have a cable and then there is a ufh manifold with pump attached with another both recievers can go near the boiler next to all this
     
  12. MGW

    MGW Screwfix Select

    A two port zone valve has up to six wires, green/yellow is earth and blue is neutral which leaves 4.
    Brown = activates motor
    Orange = common on micro switch
    Grey = Normal open on micro switch
    White = Normal closed on micro switch
    Not all have normal closed wired, in fact you can get models without a micro switch at all. However the normal way to wire is the thermostat powers the valve with brown wire, the grey is line in, and orange line out to boiler, normally wired that way around as with three port valve no option.

    Under floor heating has some problems, the main is the delay between switch on and floor getting warm, as a result there are many options used, including using it as back ground heating only, often not thermostat controlled, where it is thermostat controlled the thermostat needs setting for under floor heating so it can stop the hysteresis which can result. You have to limit floor temperature so the normal method although not only method is to circulate the under floor water with its own pump and add hot water as required to maintain the circulating water temperature, they can have an array of motorised valves, which look more like thermostatic radiator valves than the traditional motorised valve, however as far as I am aware unlike the TRV they are on/off and powered by mains in some way, not batteries. However a traditional two port valve could be used, it is up to the installer.

    So the radiators are easy, receiver connects to brown wire on the motorised valve, it is the under floor heating which is a problem, that also could be same as radiators and thermostat to brown wire on motorised valve, however it could be more complex, and with info given and my little knowledge can't really be sure how it connects. I would want to study what has been installed, and design a system to control it, operative word is design, rather than just make it work, this would start at finding out what the "L-Bus connection" does, and likely having paid so much for central heating as wet under floor is not cheap I would get a heating engineer to do it for me.

    When I was house hunting any house relying on under floor heating was rejected, number of reasons, one often the insulation under the pipes is missing, and two often control is very poor, there are exceptions, with solid fuel heating under floor heating can work well sinking excess heat when fire lit to keep room warm after fire has gone out, but with such a complex system it is not DIY work.
     

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